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How will said engineers have an entire day to do an onsite interview loop, if they can't carve out a couple of hours to do a homework assignment? My real probl

How will said engineers have an entire day to do an onsite interview loop, if they can't carve out a couple of hours to do a homework assignment? My real problem with take home assignments is that while they take away the stress of being put on the spot in front of a whiteboard, often, the reward for doing well on them is... being put on the spot in front of a whiteboard. If anything, it might get one past the phone screen, but phone screens are not the biggest problem in SWE hiring.

lliamander 6y ago
> often, the reward for doing well on them is... being put on the spot in front of a whiteboard. Ha! That can be true. So for me personally, I had candidates do a little bit of whiteboarding, but all I do is ask them to walk me through the execution of the algorithm they just implemented using minimal input parameters. Really what I'm looking for is the ability to explain how their code works (and to make sure they didn't copy someone else's work).
- ryanianian 6y ago
  My company makes us interview with whiteboard problems. It's stupid but not my decision. My favorite spin on this is the reverse problem. Ask the candidate to talk about, solve, and explain their favorite whiteboard-style problem. Ask them for something they were initially intimidated by. Maybe ask them a slight twist of it. We all know candidates study riddle problems, so let's both take advantage of that rather than giving an anxiety-test even if it's phrased as low-key.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    This actually measures communication skills, and it's often overlooked. If someone's able to clearly explain a design they did or an algorithm/data-structure that's non-trivial it's a good thing.
ryanianian 6y ago
> How will said engineers have an entire day to do an onsite interview loop Right. This practice is not better than an onsite. It's actually worse. Not only do you have to put in arbitrary amounts of time, you're not able to do any actual assessment of a prospective employer. You have nothing to go on other than a random problem statement which the company could have perfected over hundreds of hours and interviews. It's giving the employer all the leverage while also doing work for them for free.
908B64B197 6y ago
The homework assignment is low effort on the employer's side but high effort on the candidate's side. Especially if it's through some SaaS where even the grading is automated. If you are Google then sure, candidates will take the challenge. But the reward is a job at Google. I'm not against take homes, I've said it here[0], they are great when you are swarmed with low quality resumes from places that have a bad application to hire ratio. To me an on-site is more serious and shows commitment. You are asking the candidate to dedicate an entire day but asking the same to your engineering team. From my experience, engineers with multiple competing offers will go to an on-sites with certain companies that they would have ignored had they sent an online homework. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24001495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24001495
- lliamander 6y ago
  As an interviewee, a full-day onsite is much more of a turn-off for me. I don't want to use up PTO for my current employer for such a long, stressful interview process, especially without any indication of the likelihood that I will get an offer.
phist_mcgee 6y ago
Not every company subjects you to 8 hours of interviews. Geeze why is everyone so damn FAANG focused on this site?
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Not every company, true. But, I've interviewed at least 20 or 30 times over the course of my career, and every one had an onsite loop of at least 4 hours in length. None of hte companies were FAANG, or even close. More than 90% were your typical whiteboard hazing style.

lliamander 6y ago

> often, the reward for doing well on them is... being put on the spot in front of a whiteboard. Ha! That can be true. So for me personally, I had candidates do a little bit of whiteboarding, but all I do is ask them to walk me through the execution of the algorithm they just implemented using minimal input parameters. Really what I'm looking for is the ability to explain how their code works (and to make sure they didn't copy someone else's work).

ryanianian 6y ago
My company makes us interview with whiteboard problems. It's stupid but not my decision. My favorite spin on this is the reverse problem. Ask the candidate to talk about, solve, and explain their favorite whiteboard-style problem. Ask them for something they were initially intimidated by. Maybe ask them a slight twist of it. We all know candidates study riddle problems, so let's both take advantage of that rather than giving an anxiety-test even if it's phrased as low-key.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  This actually measures communication skills, and it's often overlooked. If someone's able to clearly explain a design they did or an algorithm/data-structure that's non-trivial it's a good thing.

ryanianian 6y ago

> How will said engineers have an entire day to do an onsite interview loop Right. This practice is not better than an onsite. It's actually worse. Not only do you have to put in arbitrary amounts of time, you're not able to do any actual assessment of a prospective employer. You have nothing to go on other than a random problem statement which the company could have perfected over hundreds of hours and interviews. It's giving the employer all the leverage while also doing work for them for free.

908B64B197 6y ago

The homework assignment is low effort on the employer's side but high effort on the candidate's side. Especially if it's through some SaaS where even the grading is automated. If you are Google then sure, candidates will take the challenge. But the reward is a job at Google. I'm not against take homes, I've said it here[0], they are great when you are swarmed with low quality resumes from places that have a bad application to hire ratio. To me an on-site is more serious and shows commitment. You are asking the candidate to dedicate an entire day but asking the same to your engineering team. From my experience, engineers with multiple competing offers will go to an on-sites with certain companies that they would have ignored had they sent an online homework. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24001495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24001495

lliamander 6y ago
As an interviewee, a full-day onsite is much more of a turn-off for me. I don't want to use up PTO for my current employer for such a long, stressful interview process, especially without any indication of the likelihood that I will get an offer.

phist_mcgee 6y ago

Not every company subjects you to 8 hours of interviews. Geeze why is everyone so damn FAANG focused on this site?

pmiller2 6y ago
Not every company, true. But, I've interviewed at least 20 or 30 times over the course of my career, and every one had an onsite loop of at least 4 hours in length. None of hte companies were FAANG, or even close. More than 90% were your typical whiteboard hazing style.