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The question is, what do you bring to the table? Maybe the App Store runs on AWS and Amazon gives Apple a discount on AWS so Apple reciprocates for Amazon’s app

The question is, what do you bring to the table? Maybe the App Store runs on AWS and Amazon gives Apple a discount on AWS so Apple reciprocates for Amazon’s apps. I don’t think their working relationship is all roses or anything—they were feuding a few years back—but agreements like this are negotiated because they leave everyone who agrees to them better off in some way. It could even be as simple as your app being so important that people won’t buy the phone if it can’t run it. Ultimately it doesn’t matter because for a new startup, you’re more focused on creating value from scratch than on optimizing your margins.

penagwin 6y ago
Interestingly you also can't purchase kindle ebooks on Apple devices at all, which I beleive is to skip the apple tax.
- philwelch 6y ago
  Yeah, that’s one of the ways that it’s not all roses between them. Amazon has played hardball with Apple too, sometimes refusing to sell their products.
jakelazaroff 6y ago
I alone don't bring much to the table. But multiply it by thousands of developer and that "not much" starts to add up. Apple should want to encourage a vibrant app ecosystem, no? Who knows how many cool or useful apps just never get made because the developers can't deal with the App Store.
- philwelch 6y ago
  Yeah, if it turns out that a standard rate of 25% would work out better for them than 30%, they should lower the rate to 25%. Is the current app ecosystem not vibrant enough? I think they’re doing fine as it is but it’s very literally not my business :)
- simonh 6y ago
  Oh come on, the App Store is overflowing with Apps. The amount of options on there is overwhelming. If anything there’s too much competition and too many apps, driving down the prices companies can charge for premium products due to oversupply. And don’t tell me that’s Apples fault as well, because the 30% on low prices makes businesses unsustainable. Which is it, does the 30% discourage companies from participating, or does the App Store 30% and all enable too much competition for premium apps. It can’t be both.
  - toyg 6y ago
    The Appstore is like big-cable packages: a billion channels, and nothing to watch. 90% of those apps are shovelware and addiction machines, because that’s what the Apple-imposed model effectively incentives. It’s very likely that breaking up the appstore would change that, and we could get a software market closer to what we see in other segments, free to innovate and generating more winners.
    - philwelch 6y ago
      Or it could be that shovelware and addiction machines are exactly the most cost-effective form of phone apps regardless.
    - freeone3000 6y ago
      Have you seen literally any other software segment? This isn't just the app store, this is also the play store, webpages, windows store apps, playstation games, ... The most successful apps are the ones that make the most money: skinner box slot machines with a credit card system attached. Your idea that software should have things like "intrinsic quality" or "benefit to the user" is not as important as how much money it makes, and if you put more effort into mechanics or gameplay instead of additional monetization techniques, you're losing out.
      - toyg 6y ago
        Don’t put words in my mouth. Every sector has winners and losers, that’s not the point. The point is that free platforms allow people to ALSO build different stuff and redefine what we use machines for; the appstore does not. On the desktop, one can invent p2p or a new type of browser or a magic app that makes unicorns out of tcp packets. On the appstore, entire areas of development are forbidden, in order to guarantee a constant stream of cash to Apple and Google. On the desktop, if you make a life-changing app, you get competition. On the appstore, if you threaten Apple/Google dominance, you get banned. Appstores make a mockery of the free market; anybody who lived through the 80s/90s “wild west” of computing should see them for the obscene freedom-destroying schemes that they are.
- drivingmenuts 6y ago
  And if you had the potential to bring in as much business as Amazon, as an individual, you probably get preferential treatment. But those thousands of developers operate under thousands of brands in regards to the App Store, not one brand, like Amazon does. An app like Prime Video brings in millions immediately, enough to guarantee a volume discount, while an individual could just wind up being a drain on Apple’s time and infrastructure for quite some time.

penagwin 6y ago

Interestingly you also can't purchase kindle ebooks on Apple devices at all, which I beleive is to skip the apple tax.

philwelch 6y ago
Yeah, that’s one of the ways that it’s not all roses between them. Amazon has played hardball with Apple too, sometimes refusing to sell their products.

jakelazaroff 6y ago

I alone don't bring much to the table. But multiply it by thousands of developer and that "not much" starts to add up. Apple should want to encourage a vibrant app ecosystem, no? Who knows how many cool or useful apps just never get made because the developers can't deal with the App Store.

philwelch 6y ago
Yeah, if it turns out that a standard rate of 25% would work out better for them than 30%, they should lower the rate to 25%. Is the current app ecosystem not vibrant enough? I think they’re doing fine as it is but it’s very literally not my business :)
simonh 6y ago
Oh come on, the App Store is overflowing with Apps. The amount of options on there is overwhelming. If anything there’s too much competition and too many apps, driving down the prices companies can charge for premium products due to oversupply. And don’t tell me that’s Apples fault as well, because the 30% on low prices makes businesses unsustainable. Which is it, does the 30% discourage companies from participating, or does the App Store 30% and all enable too much competition for premium apps. It can’t be both.
- toyg 6y ago
  The Appstore is like big-cable packages: a billion channels, and nothing to watch. 90% of those apps are shovelware and addiction machines, because that’s what the Apple-imposed model effectively incentives. It’s very likely that breaking up the appstore would change that, and we could get a software market closer to what we see in other segments, free to innovate and generating more winners.
  - philwelch 6y ago
    Or it could be that shovelware and addiction machines are exactly the most cost-effective form of phone apps regardless.
  - freeone3000 6y ago
    Have you seen literally any other software segment? This isn't just the app store, this is also the play store, webpages, windows store apps, playstation games, ... The most successful apps are the ones that make the most money: skinner box slot machines with a credit card system attached. Your idea that software should have things like "intrinsic quality" or "benefit to the user" is not as important as how much money it makes, and if you put more effort into mechanics or gameplay instead of additional monetization techniques, you're losing out.
    - toyg 6y ago
      Don’t put words in my mouth. Every sector has winners and losers, that’s not the point. The point is that free platforms allow people to ALSO build different stuff and redefine what we use machines for; the appstore does not. On the desktop, one can invent p2p or a new type of browser or a magic app that makes unicorns out of tcp packets. On the appstore, entire areas of development are forbidden, in order to guarantee a constant stream of cash to Apple and Google. On the desktop, if you make a life-changing app, you get competition. On the appstore, if you threaten Apple/Google dominance, you get banned. Appstores make a mockery of the free market; anybody who lived through the 80s/90s “wild west” of computing should see them for the obscene freedom-destroying schemes that they are.
drivingmenuts 6y ago
And if you had the potential to bring in as much business as Amazon, as an individual, you probably get preferential treatment. But those thousands of developers operate under thousands of brands in regards to the App Store, not one brand, like Amazon does. An app like Prime Video brings in millions immediately, enough to guarantee a volume discount, while an individual could just wind up being a drain on Apple’s time and infrastructure for quite some time.