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Maybe my point wasn't clear? To the extent that we have difficulty seeing unassisted in dark today, it's because: 1) There are many artificial sources of light

by SilasX 6y ago

Maybe my point wasn't clear? To the extent that we have difficulty seeing unassisted in dark today, it's because: 1) There are many artificial sources of light, which creates a sharp contrast. If the stuff near those sources is illuminated, everything else becomes harder to see. 2) You spend very little time outside, so even when there isn't a sharp contrast, you haven't waited for your eyes to adjust. Obviously, given artificial illumination where we want it, stuff is easier to see. See sibling reply about navigating by moonlight remote places.

tgv 6y ago
Ad 1. Background light pollution doesn't create a sharp contrast. But it's irrelevant, since that's something so recent that it can't have any influence on this topic. 2. Where it's really dark, you can't see. Period. No amount of waiting will help.
- SilasX 6y ago
  1. Yes, that's why I put "light pollution" in quotes with a clarification, because I wasn't using it in the sense it's generally used (the kind that affects your ability to see stars), and describing a different mode of pollution (of pockets of light that leave other areas much darker and thus hard to see because of the high contrast). 2. Hence the last paragraph of my original post, that you do need some minimum level of light. I was specifically speaking about conditions above some minimal threshold. Is there a better way I could have said either of those things so you wouldn't miss them?
kerkeslager 6y ago
I don't think the "pockets of light" phenomenon is unique to light-polluted areas. In Cherry Springs[1] if there's a full moon and your eyes are adjusted to looking at things bathed in moonlight, you're still not going to be able to see things underneath trees. Natural light isn't somehow more diffuse: if anything it creates more striking shadows because the light is coming primarily from a single source. I'm honestly not sure where you're getting this idea from, or why you're stating it as fact. Are you just unintentionally overstating a hypothesis here? Or do you have some information that I don't? I'm certainly not an expert on how sight works, but nothing from my experience in the wilderness matches what you're saying. [1] https://cherryspringsstatepark.com/ https://cherryspringsstatepark.com/

by SilasX 6y ago

tgv 6y ago

Ad 1. Background light pollution doesn't create a sharp contrast. But it's irrelevant, since that's something so recent that it can't have any influence on this topic. 2. Where it's really dark, you can't see. Period. No amount of waiting will help.

SilasX 6y ago
1. Yes, that's why I put "light pollution" in quotes with a clarification, because I wasn't using it in the sense it's generally used (the kind that affects your ability to see stars), and describing a different mode of pollution (of pockets of light that leave other areas much darker and thus hard to see because of the high contrast). 2. Hence the last paragraph of my original post, that you do need some minimum level of light. I was specifically speaking about conditions above some minimal threshold. Is there a better way I could have said either of those things so you wouldn't miss them?

kerkeslager 6y ago

I don't think the "pockets of light" phenomenon is unique to light-polluted areas. In Cherry Springs[1] if there's a full moon and your eyes are adjusted to looking at things bathed in moonlight, you're still not going to be able to see things underneath trees. Natural light isn't somehow more diffuse: if anything it creates more striking shadows because the light is coming primarily from a single source. I'm honestly not sure where you're getting this idea from, or why you're stating it as fact. Are you just unintentionally overstating a hypothesis here? Or do you have some information that I don't? I'm certainly not an expert on how sight works, but nothing from my experience in the wilderness matches what you're saying. [1] https://cherryspringsstatepark.com/ https://cherryspringsstatepark.com/