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I feel reminded of "gym science" when it comes to a lot of parental development strategies for children. Everyone does it so there must be something to it. If c

I feel reminded of "gym science" when it comes to a lot of parental development strategies for children. Everyone does it so there must be something to it. If controlled studies can't replicate any effects it does not appear to bother parents much. Why is it so hard to accept that domain transfer does not exist. If kids learn chess for a few years, they won't be better at mathematics. After five years of practicing Violin kids don't find learning a foreign language easier. Adding insult to injury, learning Latin (like many Europeans still do) contrary to common sense does not improve scholastic results of students when learning other languages.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago
Some times it's not about domain transfer. It's about learning how to learn, how to accomplish goals, how to manage time, and how to focus. Focusing on specific, easily-disproven knowledge transfer questions is missing the point. A child who has a decade of experience in structured practice, focus, and learning is going to be better equipped to learn future topics than a child who doesn't have similar levels of experience pursuing goals and achieving academic accomplishments.
benrbray 6y ago
> Why is it so hard to accept that domain transfer does not exist. I think, because, that's simply not true. The question is really "to what extent does domain transfer exist, and how can we exploit it?" > If kids learn chess for a few years, they won't be better at mathematics. After five years of practicing Violin kids don't find learning a foreign language easier. If kids spend several years on intentional practice of chess or violin, they're also practicing discipline. Compared to kids who spend these years unfocused, I'm guessing this group will have an easier time learning math or French simply because they have better learning habits.
- EL_Loco 6y ago
  Ok, I agree, but is a kid who spent several years on intentional chess practice better academically then a kid who spent several years on intentional math practice?
  - benrbray 6y ago
    I think that depends on a lot of factors, and I wouldn't want to judge one way or the other. Perhaps a kid who spends several years in chess clubs and really enjoys it is better off academically+socially than a kid forced by their parents to compete in math tournaments against their will, simply because the latter will have better emotional maturity and a support system to help them succeed later in life. Speaking to my own experiences, I can say my parents encouraged me to hyper-optimize for grades and academics, but that I missed out on a lot of other, irreplaceable experiences growing up. My parents taught me to look down on people who choose sports, theater, etc. over academics, but as an adult I see just how formative those activities can be when it comes to soft skills like teamwork and leadership.
narag 6y ago
Why is it so hard to accept that domain transfer does not exist. If kids learn chess for a few years, they won't be better at mathematics. That seems like the wrong way to look at it. I taught my son chess and music, not because I wanted him to be smart. But because I want him to have fun. He was already smart. I also taught him many other things of different types, games and sports, most of them what I find fun, some of them he liked, some he didn't. Are chess and music useless? I don't think so. There are a handful of lessons to learn there that are useful for other domains. Is there no other way to learn them? Probably there are, but it's way easier to learn them as part of a fun activity than sitting in a class.
heavyset_go 6y ago
> Adding insult to injury, learning Latin (like many Europeans still do) contrary to common sense does not improve scholastic results of students when learning other languages. I find that studying Romance languages has helped with understanding literary work written in English, especially when it comes to the etymology of words in English. Would have figured that studying Latin would have paid dividends at least in those respects.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

Some times it's not about domain transfer. It's about learning how to learn, how to accomplish goals, how to manage time, and how to focus. Focusing on specific, easily-disproven knowledge transfer questions is missing the point. A child who has a decade of experience in structured practice, focus, and learning is going to be better equipped to learn future topics than a child who doesn't have similar levels of experience pursuing goals and achieving academic accomplishments.

benrbray 6y ago

> Why is it so hard to accept that domain transfer does not exist. I think, because, that's simply not true. The question is really "to what extent does domain transfer exist, and how can we exploit it?" > If kids learn chess for a few years, they won't be better at mathematics. After five years of practicing Violin kids don't find learning a foreign language easier. If kids spend several years on intentional practice of chess or violin, they're also practicing discipline. Compared to kids who spend these years unfocused, I'm guessing this group will have an easier time learning math or French simply because they have better learning habits.

EL_Loco 6y ago
Ok, I agree, but is a kid who spent several years on intentional chess practice better academically then a kid who spent several years on intentional math practice?
- benrbray 6y ago
  I think that depends on a lot of factors, and I wouldn't want to judge one way or the other. Perhaps a kid who spends several years in chess clubs and really enjoys it is better off academically+socially than a kid forced by their parents to compete in math tournaments against their will, simply because the latter will have better emotional maturity and a support system to help them succeed later in life. Speaking to my own experiences, I can say my parents encouraged me to hyper-optimize for grades and academics, but that I missed out on a lot of other, irreplaceable experiences growing up. My parents taught me to look down on people who choose sports, theater, etc. over academics, but as an adult I see just how formative those activities can be when it comes to soft skills like teamwork and leadership.

narag 6y ago

Why is it so hard to accept that domain transfer does not exist. If kids learn chess for a few years, they won't be better at mathematics. That seems like the wrong way to look at it. I taught my son chess and music, not because I wanted him to be smart. But because I want him to have fun. He was already smart. I also taught him many other things of different types, games and sports, most of them what I find fun, some of them he liked, some he didn't. Are chess and music useless? I don't think so. There are a handful of lessons to learn there that are useful for other domains. Is there no other way to learn them? Probably there are, but it's way easier to learn them as part of a fun activity than sitting in a class.

heavyset_go 6y ago

> Adding insult to injury, learning Latin (like many Europeans still do) contrary to common sense does not improve scholastic results of students when learning other languages. I find that studying Romance languages has helped with understanding literary work written in English, especially when it comes to the etymology of words in English. Would have figured that studying Latin would have paid dividends at least in those respects.