4 ms·

In this case, "uncontrolled" digital lending is the appropriate term, because the IA admits that they removed those controls as part of the National "Emergency"

In this case, "uncontrolled" digital lending is the appropriate term, because the IA admits that they removed those controls as part of the National "Emergency" Library program. Also, why does it matter if 130 libraries said they were okay with the CDL program, since that's not at issue here? Library CDL programs were still online and functioning the entire time. Only the physical facilities were closed.

boogies 6y ago
They removed one type of control. “Uncontrolled” implies that there was no control whatsoever (no time limits, etc.).
- chadash 6y ago
  There is a 14 day time limit, but you can renew when that's over, with no limitations based on who else has a copy of the book. So it doesn't seem like a very meaningful control, certainly not in the eye of the copyright holder.
  - acqq 6y ago
    > you can renew when that's over You could now try, if the DRM allows it, and the Internet Archive only temporarily during the lockdowns, through the DRM, allowed more than one person to read the book. That is, you could have had it for 14 days, but now you just couldn't renew it anymore unless nobody reads it.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Controlled in the context relevant to this case relates to the number of copies, not the duration of each lending term. It doesn't matter how long the lending term is if you lend infinite simultaneous copies.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - mcguire 6y ago
    As far as I know, no one, much less the Internet Archive, is currently capable of lending infinite simultaneous copies.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      The publishers concern is exactly that IA could do that, since the number of copies they were lending wasn't actually tied to anything they owned or were licensed to lend.
- antasvara 6y ago
  What would you consider to be the correct term to use? I've seen a lot of posters arguing with the term "uncontrolled," and I agree that IA was utilizing some type of control when lending out their books. However, "controlled digital lending" is a very specific form of digital lending that most (if not all) libraries use for lending their digital resources [1]. I guess the correct term to use would be something along the lines of "lending that doesn't follow the legal definition of controlled lending" or something along those lines, but that is a somewhat unwieldy phrase to use as a part of most posts. [1]: https://controlleddigitallending.org/ https://controlleddigitallending.org/
- ChrisLomont 6y ago
  Controlled does not mean every possible constraint. Uncontrolled does not mean zero constraints whatsoever. Especially when used in opposition to the precisely defined phrase Controlled Digital Lending, where controlled is a well defined set of constraints.
mcguire 6y ago
"Library CDL programs were still online and functioning the entire time. Only the physical facilities were closed." As far as I know, most public libraries' electronic lending programs are using something similar to Rakuten OverDrive and are limited to books published in electronic editions and then leased by the library systems. Do you know of any libraries other than the Internet Archive that make scanned copies of physical books available? If you find yourself in the position of needing a copy of Charles Ross' biography Edward IV (https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/m8Ojo6VI8KUC?hl=en https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/m8Ojo6VI8KUC?hl=en), as far as I know you're pretty much limited to the Internet Archive (https://archive.org/details/edwardiv00ross https://archive.org/details/edwardiv00ross) unless you have an open research library handy. But you'd best make it quick, because the publishers want those copies deleted.

boogies 6y ago

They removed one type of control. “Uncontrolled” implies that there was no control whatsoever (no time limits, etc.).

chadash 6y ago
There is a 14 day time limit, but you can renew when that's over, with no limitations based on who else has a copy of the book. So it doesn't seem like a very meaningful control, certainly not in the eye of the copyright holder.
- acqq 6y ago
  > you can renew when that's over You could now try, if the DRM allows it, and the Internet Archive only temporarily during the lockdowns, through the DRM, allowed more than one person to read the book. That is, you could have had it for 14 days, but now you just couldn't renew it anymore unless nobody reads it.
gamblor956 6y ago
Controlled in the context relevant to this case relates to the number of copies, not the duration of each lending term. It doesn't matter how long the lending term is if you lend infinite simultaneous copies.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mcguire 6y ago
  As far as I know, no one, much less the Internet Archive, is currently capable of lending infinite simultaneous copies.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    The publishers concern is exactly that IA could do that, since the number of copies they were lending wasn't actually tied to anything they owned or were licensed to lend.
antasvara 6y ago
What would you consider to be the correct term to use? I've seen a lot of posters arguing with the term "uncontrolled," and I agree that IA was utilizing some type of control when lending out their books. However, "controlled digital lending" is a very specific form of digital lending that most (if not all) libraries use for lending their digital resources [1]. I guess the correct term to use would be something along the lines of "lending that doesn't follow the legal definition of controlled lending" or something along those lines, but that is a somewhat unwieldy phrase to use as a part of most posts. [1]: https://controlleddigitallending.org/ https://controlleddigitallending.org/
ChrisLomont 6y ago
Controlled does not mean every possible constraint. Uncontrolled does not mean zero constraints whatsoever. Especially when used in opposition to the precisely defined phrase Controlled Digital Lending, where controlled is a well defined set of constraints.

mcguire 6y ago

"Library CDL programs were still online and functioning the entire time. Only the physical facilities were closed." As far as I know, most public libraries' electronic lending programs are using something similar to Rakuten OverDrive and are limited to books published in electronic editions and then leased by the library systems. Do you know of any libraries other than the Internet Archive that make scanned copies of physical books available? If you find yourself in the position of needing a copy of Charles Ross' biography Edward IV (https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/m8Ojo6VI8KUC?hl=en https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/m8Ojo6VI8KUC?hl=en), as far as I know you're pretty much limited to the Internet Archive (https://archive.org/details/edwardiv00ross https://archive.org/details/edwardiv00ross) unless you have an open research library handy. But you'd best make it quick, because the publishers want those copies deleted.