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Reminds me of my all-in-one "Ink Advantage" HP printer. The cost of ink cartridge had gone so high that it was reasonable to just not use it anymore. The cartri

Reminds me of my all-in-one "Ink Advantage" HP printer. The cost of ink cartridge had gone so high that it was reasonable to just not use it anymore. The cartridges can be reliably refilled 3-4 times but they put an artificial #X papers print limit on each of those cartridges and show cartridge needs to be replaced message once those limits are reached. Once there was a firmware update for some vulnerability, and the update somehow erased the previous cartridges used and I was able to refill and reuse all of my previous cartridges twice again so I know cartridges were in perfect condition despite the printer saying otherwise. It remains one of my most regretted purchases till date. Only if someone had the time and motive to jailbreak it :(

auxym 6y ago
That angers me so much. In university I owned an Epson inkjet printer that refused one night to print out my paper in b&w because the cyan cartridge was empty. Never bought an Epson cartridge after that, only counterfeits on eBay.
- squarefoot 6y ago
  Just to give some perspective on the outrageous prices asked for printer ink: https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2019/07/printer-ink-costs-10-times-more-than-vintage-champagne/ https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2019/07/printer-ink-costs-...
- _Microft 6y ago
  To achieve true black, some printers also mix cyan, yellow and magenta in.
  - Cerium 6y ago
    Sure they do, but they should also print the best they can given the available resources.
- m463 6y ago
  I used to refill each cartridge in my (7?) color canon printer when it ran out. Then I gave up and would order the el-cheapo amazon refills and change all 7 at once, empty or not. (one big change every few months instead of random refills every week or so)
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  You could probably format your text into some very dark gray color which doesn't use cyan.
  - steffan 6y ago
    That's a logical conclusion, but many printers outright refuse to operate if any of the cartridges are out, regardless of whether the print job requires that particular color. I'm sure many people would happily shift from printing all black, to all cyan, then all magenta (yellow probably isn't practical) in an attempt to get maximal utility out of their color cartridge otherwise.
- userbinator 6y ago
  Epsons can(could?) be easily hacked: https://sagittal.org/photo/CIS/inkchip/chip.html https://sagittal.org/photo/CIS/inkchip/chip.html ...which is why there are lots of aftermarket CIS units for them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_ink_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_ink_system
alex_duf 6y ago
anyone aware of a printer that isn't robbing you? I've seen this on buymeonce which is usually pretty good, but I'm having trouble believing epson would have actually designed this https://buymeonce.com/products/epson-ecotank-et-2650-all-in-one-printer-copier-scanner?_pos=2&_sid=645c20bb4&_ss=r https://buymeonce.com/products/epson-ecotank-et-2650-all-in-... Edit: still seems these brick themselves once the ink pad is full. Can't find good data on that so please correct me if I'm wrong.
- no_wizard 6y ago
  Actually yeah, Epson was bleeding market share pretty good until the ecotank lines. It’s legit
  - alex_duf 6y ago
    Thanks!
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    I've been wondering for a while why it is that market forces haven't given us a printer that escapes the razor business model (low unit price combined with extortionate ink prices and anti-consumer practices to oppose third-party ink solutions). Seems to me that the way for a printer company to beat the competition would be to offer a product that isn't anti-consumer. Is that essentially what this printer is doing? Can anyone comment on how it compares to a cheap laser printer?
    - alex_duf 6y ago
      I'm still researching that topic and it seems even the eco-tank brick themselves once the ink-pad is deemed to be too full. So even if you replace the ink-pads you have to use some kind of illegal software to reset the number of pages printed, so the printer think it's brand new and allow you to print again. This really should be an option, even if it's hidden far down the printing menu. Which I guess is prone to the usual arms race between the OEM and the pirate, so assuming your printer software is up to date, it's probably hard to reset the page count. So yeah, still searching to see how much a problem it is, but that's a big no-no for me if true. Particularly for a product that brands itself as being more environment conscious...
throwanem 6y ago
As another commenter mentioned, laser printers are preferable for documents precisely because of this kind of nonsense. They were already cheaper per page for document printing anyway, but the inkjet manufacturers appear determined to cannibalize their own primary market with these schemes. That said, since developing a serious interest in photography, I've made the delightful discovery that per-page ink pricing schemes, such as HP's "Instant Ink", can be very effectively leveraged to make photo printing as close to free as it's possible to get, with the incremental cost per print being effectively just that of whatever paper you choose to use. I've since moved up to a large-format inkjet for most of my prints, not least because I was hard up against the limit of what a general-purpose CMYK system can do, especially when it comes to contrast in monochrome images. But for small-format stuff that isn't quality-critical, the OfficeJet still works fine, and I'm still paying $3 a month for all the ink I can eat.
- klodolph 6y ago
  Inkjet makers are not cannibalizing their own market. They understand the basic reason that people purchase inkjet printers in the first place—because they think about capital costs and not operating costs.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    Most people I know who bother any more to own document printers own lasers, precisely because the operating costs are so much lower. I actually don't think anyone I know even still has an inkjet, except for other photographers.
    - Natsu 6y ago
      It's funny because lasers are better for people like me who very infrequently print documents. I don't need things printed often, so I was always having the ink dry out and be unusable when I needed it. My color laser printer that I got a few years back is just so much better in every way.
      - 6y ago

auxym 6y ago

That angers me so much. In university I owned an Epson inkjet printer that refused one night to print out my paper in b&w because the cyan cartridge was empty. Never bought an Epson cartridge after that, only counterfeits on eBay.

squarefoot 6y ago
Just to give some perspective on the outrageous prices asked for printer ink: https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2019/07/printer-ink-costs-10-times-more-than-vintage-champagne/ https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2019/07/printer-ink-costs-...
_Microft 6y ago
To achieve true black, some printers also mix cyan, yellow and magenta in.
- Cerium 6y ago
  Sure they do, but they should also print the best they can given the available resources.
m463 6y ago
I used to refill each cartridge in my (7?) color canon printer when it ran out. Then I gave up and would order the el-cheapo amazon refills and change all 7 at once, empty or not. (one big change every few months instead of random refills every week or so)
oh_sigh 6y ago
You could probably format your text into some very dark gray color which doesn't use cyan.
- steffan 6y ago
  That's a logical conclusion, but many printers outright refuse to operate if any of the cartridges are out, regardless of whether the print job requires that particular color. I'm sure many people would happily shift from printing all black, to all cyan, then all magenta (yellow probably isn't practical) in an attempt to get maximal utility out of their color cartridge otherwise.
userbinator 6y ago
Epsons can(could?) be easily hacked: https://sagittal.org/photo/CIS/inkchip/chip.html https://sagittal.org/photo/CIS/inkchip/chip.html ...which is why there are lots of aftermarket CIS units for them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_ink_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_ink_system

alex_duf 6y ago

anyone aware of a printer that isn't robbing you? I've seen this on buymeonce which is usually pretty good, but I'm having trouble believing epson would have actually designed this https://buymeonce.com/products/epson-ecotank-et-2650-all-in-one-printer-copier-scanner?_pos=2&_sid=645c20bb4&_ss=r https://buymeonce.com/products/epson-ecotank-et-2650-all-in-... Edit: still seems these brick themselves once the ink pad is full. Can't find good data on that so please correct me if I'm wrong.

no_wizard 6y ago
Actually yeah, Epson was bleeding market share pretty good until the ecotank lines. It’s legit
- alex_duf 6y ago
  Thanks!
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  I've been wondering for a while why it is that market forces haven't given us a printer that escapes the razor business model (low unit price combined with extortionate ink prices and anti-consumer practices to oppose third-party ink solutions). Seems to me that the way for a printer company to beat the competition would be to offer a product that isn't anti-consumer. Is that essentially what this printer is doing? Can anyone comment on how it compares to a cheap laser printer?
  - alex_duf 6y ago
    I'm still researching that topic and it seems even the eco-tank brick themselves once the ink-pad is deemed to be too full. So even if you replace the ink-pads you have to use some kind of illegal software to reset the number of pages printed, so the printer think it's brand new and allow you to print again. This really should be an option, even if it's hidden far down the printing menu. Which I guess is prone to the usual arms race between the OEM and the pirate, so assuming your printer software is up to date, it's probably hard to reset the page count. So yeah, still searching to see how much a problem it is, but that's a big no-no for me if true. Particularly for a product that brands itself as being more environment conscious...

throwanem 6y ago

As another commenter mentioned, laser printers are preferable for documents precisely because of this kind of nonsense. They were already cheaper per page for document printing anyway, but the inkjet manufacturers appear determined to cannibalize their own primary market with these schemes. That said, since developing a serious interest in photography, I've made the delightful discovery that per-page ink pricing schemes, such as HP's "Instant Ink", can be very effectively leveraged to make photo printing as close to free as it's possible to get, with the incremental cost per print being effectively just that of whatever paper you choose to use. I've since moved up to a large-format inkjet for most of my prints, not least because I was hard up against the limit of what a general-purpose CMYK system can do, especially when it comes to contrast in monochrome images. But for small-format stuff that isn't quality-critical, the OfficeJet still works fine, and I'm still paying $3 a month for all the ink I can eat.

klodolph 6y ago
Inkjet makers are not cannibalizing their own market. They understand the basic reason that people purchase inkjet printers in the first place—because they think about capital costs and not operating costs.
- throwanem 6y ago
  Most people I know who bother any more to own document printers own lasers, precisely because the operating costs are so much lower. I actually don't think anyone I know even still has an inkjet, except for other photographers.
  - Natsu 6y ago
    It's funny because lasers are better for people like me who very infrequently print documents. I don't need things printed often, so I was always having the ink dry out and be unusable when I needed it. My color laser printer that I got a few years back is just so much better in every way.
    - 6y ago