4 ms·

Forgive me if I've read you wrong, but it seems to me that you're saying there are three types of startup journalists out there: 1) People who rewrite press re

by trotsky 16y ago

Forgive me if I've read you wrong, but it seems to me that you're saying there are three types of startup journalists out there: 1) People who rewrite press releases 2) People who rewrite press releases 3) TechCrunch Said like that, and given that you spent a good deal of time working with them - don't you think you could be revealing a wee bit of bias? (not that the original blog isn't)

nikcub 16y ago
I didn't mean to say that Mike is the only type 3 blogger - in my own opinion I would include Mike Masnick, Henry Blodget, Danny Sullivan, the TorrentFreak guys, Om, Steve Gillmor etc. If it read any other way, it wasn't my intention. As an example, there was the Scamville[1] story about Offerpal and the offers in games on the Facebook platform and others. I was listening in to some of the calls Mike was making, and he told me about others, and it was apparent that another journalist had the same story a month earlier, but had been convinced not to publish it. There were entire blogs dedicated to covering the space, but nobody said a word about users getting ripped off with misleading scams. Then when you visit these blogs you find the sponsor squares in the sidebar were the same companies that were involved with the bad offers. That is definitely 'type 2' [1] http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/31/scamville-the-social-gaming-ecosystem-of-hell/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/31/scamville-the-social-gaming...
- 18pfsmt 16y ago
  I remember when you used to write for TC and it sucks there isn't anyone technical there anymore. Masnick is my new favorite blogger. I used to troll you guys, so it seems weird to now defend you :-) I wish there were another blogger with VC access, but that takes time.
  - nikcub 16y ago
    You might think otherwise, but most bloggers love the trolls. It was always the troll comments that would get called out across the office. It is a lot harder to write technical stories. You could write 4-5 stories a day about startups or other news, but a tech story could take all day to assemble. There is definitely an opportunity in a Techcrunch-like blog that is more technical. It just requires a lot of work and patience. The only way to build up an audience is to write frequently, and producing 3-4 good articles a day is difficult. Most VCs love talking to bloggers. Their job is to network and to be a hub of information - so I don't know why more bloggers don't simply introduce themselves and ask. There isn't really an impenetrable wall there - it is just a matter of finding them and reaching out. They are definitely the best sources.
- trotsky 16y ago
  Thanks for clarifying. There is no question that the scamville series was great journalism and a tribute to what they can do when they put their minds to it. Of course, I didn't know about another outlet passing on the story due to advertiser conflict but that certainly doesn't surprise me. By the same token, I wouldn't be surprised in the least to hear examples of Mike doing similar things, though it's probably more likely to be a relationship conflict. One of the great hallmarks of classic journalism was always the firewall between advertising and editorial. It's always seemed that professional blogging has almost prided itself (in a mostly unsaid way) with the breakdown of that wall - or perhaps they were all just too small to care. Even news behemoths seem to be rather captured by the enemy these days, or at least have lost a lot of the fervor that defended the split 30-40 years ago. I feel conflicted about TC's voice, and I doubt I'm the only one. This isn't a new feeling, I've never been a huge fan - but it does seem to be worse now after the AOL acquisition. That doesn't mean I'm willing to not read it entirely as they clearly develop some good stories (be they third party or not). A lot of the rest gives me real pause before I click on a story of theirs in an aggregator. Between the almost zero content posts, the blind brand boosterism, obvious collusion in some startup coverage, hit jobs on the competition and petty stories about what bad thing some AT&T call center rep tweeted - it's a real minefield. It's too bad that the startup and tech world doesn't think itself worthy of a quality paper like the finance industry does. While clearly there is more money in new york, there is certainly enough flowing in silicon valley to support some real subscription journalism. Perhaps the problem is that it's off message - you can't support quality subscription journalism in your corner while attacking it everywhere else. Maybe some day someone with a big exit who loves news will take on the challenge and give a shot at becoming the Murdoch of the west coast, willing to subsidize quality if that's what it takes. Heck, maybe even Arrington could do that - they seem to share a particular brand of crazy - it's just that Murdoch mostly keeps his in other people's publications. Such a thing probably wouldn't start off with a bang, but with a whimper. It might even be as unremarkable as a popular tech blog slowly and quietly raising their own internal standards over time.
  - nikcub 16y ago
    I agree, and I mentioned in below in another reply, there is definitely an opportunity to create a blog that is more technical and aimed more at the developer/tech/entrepreneur community. There is an audience that is only interested in about 10% of what is on TC, but have nowhere to go atm to find more of the same. There isn't a blog that really epitomizes the types of stories that are featured here on HN every day. There isn't an outlet that dominates HN news as much as Techcrunch dominates the Techmeme crowd. The problem is that the audience wants both quality and volume. You can't get away with just a post a day - and producing at least 3-4 good quality tech/dev stories, 7 days a week, is a lot of hard work

by trotsky 16y ago

nikcub 16y ago

I didn't mean to say that Mike is the only type 3 blogger - in my own opinion I would include Mike Masnick, Henry Blodget, Danny Sullivan, the TorrentFreak guys, Om, Steve Gillmor etc. If it read any other way, it wasn't my intention. As an example, there was the Scamville[1] story about Offerpal and the offers in games on the Facebook platform and others. I was listening in to some of the calls Mike was making, and he told me about others, and it was apparent that another journalist had the same story a month earlier, but had been convinced not to publish it. There were entire blogs dedicated to covering the space, but nobody said a word about users getting ripped off with misleading scams. Then when you visit these blogs you find the sponsor squares in the sidebar were the same companies that were involved with the bad offers. That is definitely 'type 2' [1] http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/31/scamville-the-social-gaming-ecosystem-of-hell/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/31/scamville-the-social-gaming...

18pfsmt 16y ago
I remember when you used to write for TC and it sucks there isn't anyone technical there anymore. Masnick is my new favorite blogger. I used to troll you guys, so it seems weird to now defend you :-) I wish there were another blogger with VC access, but that takes time.
- nikcub 16y ago
  You might think otherwise, but most bloggers love the trolls. It was always the troll comments that would get called out across the office. It is a lot harder to write technical stories. You could write 4-5 stories a day about startups or other news, but a tech story could take all day to assemble. There is definitely an opportunity in a Techcrunch-like blog that is more technical. It just requires a lot of work and patience. The only way to build up an audience is to write frequently, and producing 3-4 good articles a day is difficult. Most VCs love talking to bloggers. Their job is to network and to be a hub of information - so I don't know why more bloggers don't simply introduce themselves and ask. There isn't really an impenetrable wall there - it is just a matter of finding them and reaching out. They are definitely the best sources.
trotsky 16y ago
Thanks for clarifying. There is no question that the scamville series was great journalism and a tribute to what they can do when they put their minds to it. Of course, I didn't know about another outlet passing on the story due to advertiser conflict but that certainly doesn't surprise me. By the same token, I wouldn't be surprised in the least to hear examples of Mike doing similar things, though it's probably more likely to be a relationship conflict. One of the great hallmarks of classic journalism was always the firewall between advertising and editorial. It's always seemed that professional blogging has almost prided itself (in a mostly unsaid way) with the breakdown of that wall - or perhaps they were all just too small to care. Even news behemoths seem to be rather captured by the enemy these days, or at least have lost a lot of the fervor that defended the split 30-40 years ago. I feel conflicted about TC's voice, and I doubt I'm the only one. This isn't a new feeling, I've never been a huge fan - but it does seem to be worse now after the AOL acquisition. That doesn't mean I'm willing to not read it entirely as they clearly develop some good stories (be they third party or not). A lot of the rest gives me real pause before I click on a story of theirs in an aggregator. Between the almost zero content posts, the blind brand boosterism, obvious collusion in some startup coverage, hit jobs on the competition and petty stories about what bad thing some AT&T call center rep tweeted - it's a real minefield. It's too bad that the startup and tech world doesn't think itself worthy of a quality paper like the finance industry does. While clearly there is more money in new york, there is certainly enough flowing in silicon valley to support some real subscription journalism. Perhaps the problem is that it's off message - you can't support quality subscription journalism in your corner while attacking it everywhere else. Maybe some day someone with a big exit who loves news will take on the challenge and give a shot at becoming the Murdoch of the west coast, willing to subsidize quality if that's what it takes. Heck, maybe even Arrington could do that - they seem to share a particular brand of crazy - it's just that Murdoch mostly keeps his in other people's publications. Such a thing probably wouldn't start off with a bang, but with a whimper. It might even be as unremarkable as a popular tech blog slowly and quietly raising their own internal standards over time.
- nikcub 16y ago
  I agree, and I mentioned in below in another reply, there is definitely an opportunity to create a blog that is more technical and aimed more at the developer/tech/entrepreneur community. There is an audience that is only interested in about 10% of what is on TC, but have nowhere to go atm to find more of the same. There isn't a blog that really epitomizes the types of stories that are featured here on HN every day. There isn't an outlet that dominates HN news as much as Techcrunch dominates the Techmeme crowd. The problem is that the audience wants both quality and volume. You can't get away with just a post a day - and producing at least 3-4 good quality tech/dev stories, 7 days a week, is a lot of hard work