4 ms·

> If any brown M&Ms were found backstage, the band could cancel the entire concert at the full expense of the promoter. I really don't think this would stand u

> If any brown M&Ms were found backstage, the band could cancel the entire concert at the full expense of the promoter. I really don't think this would stand up in court. Does anyone know of any concerts cancelled due to minor issues with the rider?

baddox 6y ago
I don’t think it would matter whether it held up in court, because superstars probably had much more power and leverage than concert venues so the venues wanted to keep them happy. I also don’t really buy the explanation that brown candy would indicate that the facilities weren’t structurally/electrically safe. I think it’s more likely that the band were just a bunch of spoiled jerks.
cjhveal 6y ago
The brown M&M's were supposedly a canary that prompted a line-by-line check of the technical specifications of the production for errors, which would then be the grounds to cancel the show. Snopes has a good article[0] on the Van Halen rider. [0]: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-out/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-out/
- quietbritishjim 6y ago
  It is also explained in the article. The whole point of it mentioning brown M&Ms is because of this.
- barbegal 6y ago
  I understand its purpose as a canary. I'm just questioning the idea of "cancelling the entire concert at the full expense of the promoter" which seems false.
  - huffmsa 6y ago
    Likely they wouldn't, but if during their line chrck, they found other more dangerous omissions and failures by the promotor to setup the stage and equipment correctly, they definitely could cancel. These guys were working with thousands of amps of electricity, hundred of pounds of equipment, pyrotechnics,etc. Could easily severely harm or kill someone if it wasn't setup properly. No obligation to do a show of the other side of the contract isn't being fulfilled
  - numpad0 6y ago
    That way you don’t have to point your fingers around to cancel that show.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    Legally they can as it is a violation. They probably never did just based on that, but it would be in the list of reasons.
Juliate 6y ago
The goal is not for it to stand in court. It's only to act as a canary, kind of a checksum (and I suspect it's not the only one, only the most obvious/curious). When the band arrives into the venue, they check for canaries: if they see something wrong, it's a good enough reason to trigger a full inspection for serious issues.
wcfields 6y ago
Tl;dr from my memory. Numbers are estimates. Van Halen, at the time, were doing the largest stadium stage show ever. Most tours were 2 semi-trucks of speakers and lighting, VH were ~10+. Due to the never before done scale of the show rigging weight limits are critical. Not following it could lead to a stage collapse. VH put the brown M&M’s in the middle of the weight requirement rider. This way the production crew could easily see if the local producer actually read the rider by seeing a bowl of brown M&M’s.
- kozak 6y ago
  DIY GPT-3 output?
lmm 6y ago
It probably wouldn't, but what promoter would take the risk? So it serves its purpose.
gruez 6y ago
> I really don't think this would stand up in court. Why not? Under what legal doctrine?
jcranmer 6y ago
I don't know how the contracts were actually written, but I suspect it would legally classify as a "breach of condition." This kind of breach entitles the innocent party (i.e., Van Halen) to terminate the contract. Of course, the contract itself can override this interpretation as it sees fit. However, as noted by others, this is rather moot: someone who didn't notice this line in the contract probably didn't notice all the other (more serious!) issues.

baddox 6y ago

I don’t think it would matter whether it held up in court, because superstars probably had much more power and leverage than concert venues so the venues wanted to keep them happy. I also don’t really buy the explanation that brown candy would indicate that the facilities weren’t structurally/electrically safe. I think it’s more likely that the band were just a bunch of spoiled jerks.

cjhveal 6y ago

The brown M&M's were supposedly a canary that prompted a line-by-line check of the technical specifications of the production for errors, which would then be the grounds to cancel the show. Snopes has a good article[0] on the Van Halen rider. [0]: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-out/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-out/

quietbritishjim 6y ago
It is also explained in the article. The whole point of it mentioning brown M&Ms is because of this.
barbegal 6y ago
I understand its purpose as a canary. I'm just questioning the idea of "cancelling the entire concert at the full expense of the promoter" which seems false.
- huffmsa 6y ago
  Likely they wouldn't, but if during their line chrck, they found other more dangerous omissions and failures by the promotor to setup the stage and equipment correctly, they definitely could cancel. These guys were working with thousands of amps of electricity, hundred of pounds of equipment, pyrotechnics,etc. Could easily severely harm or kill someone if it wasn't setup properly. No obligation to do a show of the other side of the contract isn't being fulfilled
- numpad0 6y ago
  That way you don’t have to point your fingers around to cancel that show.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Legally they can as it is a violation. They probably never did just based on that, but it would be in the list of reasons.

Juliate 6y ago

The goal is not for it to stand in court. It's only to act as a canary, kind of a checksum (and I suspect it's not the only one, only the most obvious/curious). When the band arrives into the venue, they check for canaries: if they see something wrong, it's a good enough reason to trigger a full inspection for serious issues.

wcfields 6y ago

Tl;dr from my memory. Numbers are estimates. Van Halen, at the time, were doing the largest stadium stage show ever. Most tours were 2 semi-trucks of speakers and lighting, VH were ~10+. Due to the never before done scale of the show rigging weight limits are critical. Not following it could lead to a stage collapse. VH put the brown M&M’s in the middle of the weight requirement rider. This way the production crew could easily see if the local producer actually read the rider by seeing a bowl of brown M&M’s.

kozak 6y ago
DIY GPT-3 output?

lmm 6y ago

It probably wouldn't, but what promoter would take the risk? So it serves its purpose.

gruez 6y ago

> I really don't think this would stand up in court. Why not? Under what legal doctrine?

jcranmer 6y ago

I don't know how the contracts were actually written, but I suspect it would legally classify as a "breach of condition." This kind of breach entitles the innocent party (i.e., Van Halen) to terminate the contract. Of course, the contract itself can override this interpretation as it sees fit. However, as noted by others, this is rather moot: someone who didn't notice this line in the contract probably didn't notice all the other (more serious!) issues.