4 ms·

I'm not sure what you're advocating here. That the threat of being homeless forces people to work, against their will? - and that this is better than the alter

I'm not sure what you're advocating here. That the threat of being homeless forces people to work, against their will? - and that this is better than the alternative for a significant chunk of the populace? Maybe. That seems quite narrowminded. It certainly is [citation needed].

luckylion 6y ago
> That the threat of being homeless forces people to work, against their will? The threat of imprisonment forces people to pay taxes, against their will. Shouldn't we do away with that too?
- rzwitserloot 6y ago
  No; people would no doubt pay no or far fewer taxes if it was entirely an optional affair. There's plenty of research out there that shows that people as a rule want to work, even if they don't _need_ to do so for subsistence. It helps, rather a lot, that it gets you access to more scarce goods that you want, but that does not change in UBI.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    There's a lot of evidence of people choosing not to work if welfare provides a living that's comfortable for their tastes. I have a neighbor (in his forties) that is among that group, he's quite content watching tv, playing xbox and listening to music all day and getting drunk every few days, which he can afford on welfare, and he has a large-ish flat (same one I do), all paid for. I wouldn't want to live that way, you probably wouldn't either. But he would and he is. UBI would certainly not be lower than today's welfare programs, and it wouldn't even have the modicum of incentive ("you must be looking for work" vs unconditional), so how would it not have a built-in disincentive to work on people that are fine with living their lives that way?
karlakush 6y ago
The threat of starvation forces pumas to hunt against their will. Should we start setting out food bowls for the local pumas? We should absolutely force people to be productive members of society if the alternative is to steal from other people so that they can sit at home all day.

luckylion 6y ago

> That the threat of being homeless forces people to work, against their will? The threat of imprisonment forces people to pay taxes, against their will. Shouldn't we do away with that too?

rzwitserloot 6y ago
No; people would no doubt pay no or far fewer taxes if it was entirely an optional affair. There's plenty of research out there that shows that people as a rule want to work, even if they don't _need_ to do so for subsistence. It helps, rather a lot, that it gets you access to more scarce goods that you want, but that does not change in UBI.
- luckylion 6y ago
  There's a lot of evidence of people choosing not to work if welfare provides a living that's comfortable for their tastes. I have a neighbor (in his forties) that is among that group, he's quite content watching tv, playing xbox and listening to music all day and getting drunk every few days, which he can afford on welfare, and he has a large-ish flat (same one I do), all paid for. I wouldn't want to live that way, you probably wouldn't either. But he would and he is. UBI would certainly not be lower than today's welfare programs, and it wouldn't even have the modicum of incentive ("you must be looking for work" vs unconditional), so how would it not have a built-in disincentive to work on people that are fine with living their lives that way?

karlakush 6y ago

The threat of starvation forces pumas to hunt against their will. Should we start setting out food bowls for the local pumas? We should absolutely force people to be productive members of society if the alternative is to steal from other people so that they can sit at home all day.