4 ms·

Could a carbon tax also be assessed against capital gains that benefit from carbon emission? That might address the inherent inequality you mention.

Aerroon 6y ago
I'm unsure how you would go about doing that. You would somehow have to be able to assess the carbon emissions of every company. This gets quite difficult, because you have to start answering questions such as "do we count the carbon emissions of the individual employees?" It might seem like a silly question, but this could have an impact on which types of businesses people invest in. It would probably just be easier to have a general carbon tax that gets paid back to people. Then separately you could have a UBI paid for by capital gains taxes or something along those lines. But somebody else probably knows more about this.
- guerrilla 6y ago
  Do they not already have to report emissions?
  - bradlys 6y ago
    I work for a fintech startup. I'd be very surprised if we had to report emissions. Yet, we are definitely a method for the rich to get richer through investments. And we currently benefit from a particular kind of carbon footprint - somewhat indirectly.
    - guerrilla 6y ago
      No but they may have to declare that they have nothing to declare or those who do need certain kinds of operatimg licences that your company doesn't. Obviously they know who's running refineries, paper mills and things like that.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > You would somehow have to be able to assess the carbon emissions of every company And then map that to every stock, bond, loan and asset.
- prostoalex 6y ago
  Economists distinguish between three scopes of emissions https://www.economist.com/briefing/2020/06/20/how-much-can-financiers-do-about-climate-change https://www.economist.com/briefing/2020/06/20/how-much-can-f... It gets complicated as direct taxation just encourages moving the dirtiest link in the supply chain offshore. E.g. manufacture tire in the US and be subject to a high emissions tax, manufacture them abroad and then import them into US - and you're golden.
  - bickeringyokel 6y ago
    Could you not solve that issue with tariffs?
adrianN 6y ago
A carbon tax is best levied at the point of extraction. Businesses that currently benefit from emitting a lot will automatically reduce in value.
- LoSboccacc 6y ago
  *automatically move abroad to complacent countries where emission can be whatever you want them to be
  - adrianN 6y ago
    Why would they? If they export their goods they get the tax back and if they wanted to import after moving to a different country they'd have to pay at the border.
    - LoSboccacc 6y ago
      and how much would they pay at the border?
      - adrianN 6y ago
        The best estimate as to how much carbon the product released times the price of carbon of course. I'd guess the estimates would be on the high side to encourage domestic production.
        LoSboccacc 6y ago
        > complacent countries where emission can be whatever you want them to be and whom you gonna trust for measuring/estimate the carbon produced in the complacent country? "yes sir we have all these kind of filters and capture schemes" preemptive reply to "but we're going to check and fine them": Panama Papers happened and nothing was done about them.
        adrianN 6y ago

Aerroon 6y ago

I'm unsure how you would go about doing that. You would somehow have to be able to assess the carbon emissions of every company. This gets quite difficult, because you have to start answering questions such as "do we count the carbon emissions of the individual employees?" It might seem like a silly question, but this could have an impact on which types of businesses people invest in. It would probably just be easier to have a general carbon tax that gets paid back to people. Then separately you could have a UBI paid for by capital gains taxes or something along those lines. But somebody else probably knows more about this.

guerrilla 6y ago
Do they not already have to report emissions?
- bradlys 6y ago
  I work for a fintech startup. I'd be very surprised if we had to report emissions. Yet, we are definitely a method for the rich to get richer through investments. And we currently benefit from a particular kind of carbon footprint - somewhat indirectly.
  - guerrilla 6y ago
    No but they may have to declare that they have nothing to declare or those who do need certain kinds of operatimg licences that your company doesn't. Obviously they know who's running refineries, paper mills and things like that.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> You would somehow have to be able to assess the carbon emissions of every company And then map that to every stock, bond, loan and asset.
prostoalex 6y ago
Economists distinguish between three scopes of emissions https://www.economist.com/briefing/2020/06/20/how-much-can-financiers-do-about-climate-change https://www.economist.com/briefing/2020/06/20/how-much-can-f... It gets complicated as direct taxation just encourages moving the dirtiest link in the supply chain offshore. E.g. manufacture tire in the US and be subject to a high emissions tax, manufacture them abroad and then import them into US - and you're golden.
- bickeringyokel 6y ago
  Could you not solve that issue with tariffs?

adrianN 6y ago

A carbon tax is best levied at the point of extraction. Businesses that currently benefit from emitting a lot will automatically reduce in value.

LoSboccacc 6y ago
*automatically move abroad to complacent countries where emission can be whatever you want them to be
- adrianN 6y ago
  Why would they? If they export their goods they get the tax back and if they wanted to import after moving to a different country they'd have to pay at the border.
  - LoSboccacc 6y ago
    and how much would they pay at the border?
    - adrianN 6y ago
      The best estimate as to how much carbon the product released times the price of carbon of course. I'd guess the estimates would be on the high side to encourage domestic production.
      - LoSboccacc 6y ago
        > complacent countries where emission can be whatever you want them to be and whom you gonna trust for measuring/estimate the carbon produced in the complacent country? "yes sir we have all these kind of filters and capture schemes" preemptive reply to "but we're going to check and fine them": Panama Papers happened and nothing was done about them.
        adrianN 6y ago