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Then I don't understand your position. Could you please explain to me in what ways is anti-communism misguided? Have you ever lived in a communist state, or at

Then I don't understand your position. Could you please explain to me in what ways is anti-communism misguided? Have you ever lived in a communist state, or at least a post-communist one? It's not normal to go on HN propagating fascism, so why is it OK to propagate communism? Edit - reaction to your edit: In practice communism is an ideology that led to the death of 60 million people, to the imprisonment of millions, and destruction of uncountable lives - consistently, all around the world, within different cultures, jurisdictions, legal systems, cultures. While I see your point and agree that the current state of things is not okay, to conclude that communism is the solution is IMHO incredibly naive, sad, outraging and vulgar.

ihm 6y ago
These positions couldn't be further from each other -- see above comment. Moreover, communists historically (and today) have been on the whole been strong opponents to fascism (as you would expect of an ideology based on striving for equality and universal freedom), even in times when liberals were happy to collaborate.
- TomMarius 6y ago
  Communists have never been a practical opposition to fascists except in that they competed for the same thing - absolute power over everyone and anything. You know Nazis were actually socialists, right? The economic order of Nazi Germany was practically identical to that of Soviet Union.
  - ihm 6y ago
    Literally the first google result for "antifa communist": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion > Antifaschistische Aktion (German: [ˌantifaˈʃɪstɪʃə ʔakˈtsi̯oːn]), commonly known under its abbreviation Antifa (German: [ˈantifaː]), was a militant anti-fascist organisation in the Weimar Republic started by members of the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) that existed from 1932 to 1933. In response to what you said about Nazism, communism was the principal political opponent of Nazism in Germany and leftists of all stripes were killed along with Jews, Roma, people with disabilities etc. It takes about 2 seconds of reading to learn this. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Anti-communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Anti-communism: > The Nazis claimed that communism was dangerous to the well-being of nations because of its intention to dissolve private property... In Mein Kampf, Hitler stated his desire to "make war upon the Marxist principle that all men are equal."... Four thousand KPD officials were arrested in February 1933, and by the end of the year 130,000 communists had been sent to concentration camps.
    - TomMarius 6y ago
      Yeah, and so what? They wanted to replace one dystopia with another, at least as bad one. Should I applaud them? As I said, it never was a practical opposition because all their difference was in that the communists weren't racists (but were nationalist too), but they were just as populist and the proposed economic order was also the same. I am not sure where you live, but if you are from the former eastern bloc like me, it's very likely your family lost someone and had people imprisoned and unable to study highschool because of communism. Hitler would be happy the communists finished his job! You're getting too attached to theory. The reality was different than the proclamations. Study the actual functioning of the regimes.
- bobcostas55 6y ago
  Historically communists were allied with the fascists and launched a joint invasion of Poland with them while providing them with trainload after trainload of supplies. In Italy the communists literally became the fascists, Mussolini was a high-ranking member of the Italian Socialist Party.
ihm 6y ago
> In practice communism is an idealogy that led to the death of 60 million people, to the imprisonment of millions, and destroyed uncountable lives - all around the world, consistently, within different cultures, jurisdictions, legal systems. While I see your point and agree that the current state of things is not okay, to conclude that communism is the solution is IMHO incredibly naive, sad, and outraging. This paints such a reductive picture of what went wrong in the development of the Soviet Union. Clearly the answer to why the Stalinist turn happened is more complicated and historically contingent than the paragraph description of communism I pasted above. Also, I don't know where you're getting this number from, but I'm sure the number is at least as high for liberal capitalist nations (counting up World War I, the slave trade, European and American imperialism more generally, the US's ongoing wars, etc.). And if you weren't aware, the US currently imprisons more people per capita and in absolute terms than any other country.
- TomMarius 6y ago
  I am aware of that but I am not sure what should I do with it. The state of Czechia, nor the former Kingdom of Bohemia, nor its Austrian emperors did that. It's not just the Soviet Union that went wrong, and it went wrong since it's founding to its very end -the stalinist era was merely an extreme. dozens of states went wrong along with it, and not just the SU-affiliated ones too, there are states like Yugoslavia, China, Cuba...

ihm 6y ago

These positions couldn't be further from each other -- see above comment. Moreover, communists historically (and today) have been on the whole been strong opponents to fascism (as you would expect of an ideology based on striving for equality and universal freedom), even in times when liberals were happy to collaborate.

TomMarius 6y ago
Communists have never been a practical opposition to fascists except in that they competed for the same thing - absolute power over everyone and anything. You know Nazis were actually socialists, right? The economic order of Nazi Germany was practically identical to that of Soviet Union.
- ihm 6y ago
  Literally the first google result for "antifa communist": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion > Antifaschistische Aktion (German: [ˌantifaˈʃɪstɪʃə ʔakˈtsi̯oːn]), commonly known under its abbreviation Antifa (German: [ˈantifaː]), was a militant anti-fascist organisation in the Weimar Republic started by members of the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) that existed from 1932 to 1933. In response to what you said about Nazism, communism was the principal political opponent of Nazism in Germany and leftists of all stripes were killed along with Jews, Roma, people with disabilities etc. It takes about 2 seconds of reading to learn this. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Anti-communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Anti-communism: > The Nazis claimed that communism was dangerous to the well-being of nations because of its intention to dissolve private property... In Mein Kampf, Hitler stated his desire to "make war upon the Marxist principle that all men are equal."... Four thousand KPD officials were arrested in February 1933, and by the end of the year 130,000 communists had been sent to concentration camps.
  - TomMarius 6y ago
    Yeah, and so what? They wanted to replace one dystopia with another, at least as bad one. Should I applaud them? As I said, it never was a practical opposition because all their difference was in that the communists weren't racists (but were nationalist too), but they were just as populist and the proposed economic order was also the same. I am not sure where you live, but if you are from the former eastern bloc like me, it's very likely your family lost someone and had people imprisoned and unable to study highschool because of communism. Hitler would be happy the communists finished his job! You're getting too attached to theory. The reality was different than the proclamations. Study the actual functioning of the regimes.
bobcostas55 6y ago
Historically communists were allied with the fascists and launched a joint invasion of Poland with them while providing them with trainload after trainload of supplies. In Italy the communists literally became the fascists, Mussolini was a high-ranking member of the Italian Socialist Party.

ihm 6y ago

> In practice communism is an idealogy that led to the death of 60 million people, to the imprisonment of millions, and destroyed uncountable lives - all around the world, consistently, within different cultures, jurisdictions, legal systems. While I see your point and agree that the current state of things is not okay, to conclude that communism is the solution is IMHO incredibly naive, sad, and outraging. This paints such a reductive picture of what went wrong in the development of the Soviet Union. Clearly the answer to why the Stalinist turn happened is more complicated and historically contingent than the paragraph description of communism I pasted above. Also, I don't know where you're getting this number from, but I'm sure the number is at least as high for liberal capitalist nations (counting up World War I, the slave trade, European and American imperialism more generally, the US's ongoing wars, etc.). And if you weren't aware, the US currently imprisons more people per capita and in absolute terms than any other country.

TomMarius 6y ago
I am aware of that but I am not sure what should I do with it. The state of Czechia, nor the former Kingdom of Bohemia, nor its Austrian emperors did that. It's not just the Soviet Union that went wrong, and it went wrong since it's founding to its very end -the stalinist era was merely an extreme. dozens of states went wrong along with it, and not just the SU-affiliated ones too, there are states like Yugoslavia, China, Cuba...