3 ms·

So let's say I did the same thing. I don't have any money, so there is no meaningful financial punishment that can be applied to me. In which case, we'll need a

by ttmb 6y ago

So let's say I did the same thing. I don't have any money, so there is no meaningful financial punishment that can be applied to me. In which case, we'll need an alternate punishment, ie - jail. In which case we've just set up a punishment system where poor people go to jail and rich people don't.

dheera 6y ago
> no meaningful financial punishment OK, so require community service. That doesn't cost me as a taxpayer, and even benefits me indirectly. Community service is also a far better rehabilitation strategy than locking people up when they aren't a physical threat. Or delayed financial punishments that are proportional to your earnings in the future.
knightofmars 6y ago
>In which case we've just set up a punishment system where poor people go to jail and rich people don't. One could make a good case that this is already the state of the justice system in the United States. The simple act of being able to afford a better attorney alters the outcome of a trial.
manquer 6y ago
That’s the difference between American view of prison as only punishment and deterrent and not rehabilitation. If a criminal is violent and needs to isolated from society or needs rehabilitation programs skills training etc to live a moral /legal life then perhaps prison can offer those . Even with traditional non white collar crimes , like say prostitution or small drug dealers offender are often victims as well , putting them in prison is counter productive. The punishment philosophy is based on the premise that punishment is an deterrent and severe punishment will make people not break the law. This is outdated view. Decision making when committing a crime is not driven by fear of imprisonment. People do not always make rational decisions , especially under the influence of a substance . our risk perception and tolerance is not statistically optimal plenty of games and tv shows revolve around this . Logical reasoning arguments aside , on pure numbers rate of incarceration and convictions, recidivism per capita in the U.S. is by far the highest in developed economies and the difference is very stark compared to say Norway where rehabilitation is the focus, famously prisons are so empty they rent it out to other countries, a mass shooter complains about not having access to latest play station. I am not even touching on the problems with the slavery , for profit incentives , the dis proportionate racial representation , racial /economic sentencing biases for similar crimes in the U.S.

by ttmb 6y ago

dheera 6y ago

> no meaningful financial punishment OK, so require community service. That doesn't cost me as a taxpayer, and even benefits me indirectly. Community service is also a far better rehabilitation strategy than locking people up when they aren't a physical threat. Or delayed financial punishments that are proportional to your earnings in the future.

knightofmars 6y ago

>In which case we've just set up a punishment system where poor people go to jail and rich people don't. One could make a good case that this is already the state of the justice system in the United States. The simple act of being able to afford a better attorney alters the outcome of a trial.

manquer 6y ago

That’s the difference between American view of prison as only punishment and deterrent and not rehabilitation. If a criminal is violent and needs to isolated from society or needs rehabilitation programs skills training etc to live a moral /legal life then perhaps prison can offer those . Even with traditional non white collar crimes , like say prostitution or small drug dealers offender are often victims as well , putting them in prison is counter productive. The punishment philosophy is based on the premise that punishment is an deterrent and severe punishment will make people not break the law. This is outdated view. Decision making when committing a crime is not driven by fear of imprisonment. People do not always make rational decisions , especially under the influence of a substance . our risk perception and tolerance is not statistically optimal plenty of games and tv shows revolve around this . Logical reasoning arguments aside , on pure numbers rate of incarceration and convictions, recidivism per capita in the U.S. is by far the highest in developed economies and the difference is very stark compared to say Norway where rehabilitation is the focus, famously prisons are so empty they rent it out to other countries, a mass shooter complains about not having access to latest play station. I am not even touching on the problems with the slavery , for profit incentives , the dis proportionate racial representation , racial /economic sentencing biases for similar crimes in the U.S.