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I fail to see how magic advanced computer power would solve the problem of economic calculation in the socialist commonwealth. Without prices there is no effici

I fail to see how magic advanced computer power would solve the problem of economic calculation in the socialist commonwealth. Without prices there is no efficient distribution of resources.

thrownagain 6y ago
The same way they do so within a single sufficiently large corporation, and the same way the market utterly fails in such a situation. See https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4385-failing-to-plan-how-ayn-rand-destroyed-sears https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4385-failing-to-plan-how-ay...
- thodin 6y ago
  Private companies are interested in getting real statistics, it was not like that in USSR. Even on largest auto-factory (AvtoVAZ) programmers were creating software with intentional bugs, so they can fix it later, during pre-programmed outages and get some bonuses. No one was interested in sending real statistics to Moscow, from head of local shop to head of large factory.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    To be fair to those programmers, I've seen the same thing (or similar) in the US. It wasn't intentional bugs, but intentional delays in addressing them. That is, they sandbagged. They knew the fixes but didn't apply them so that they could hit monthly/quarterly/whatever targets. Or they knew they could knock out 100 features in a week, but that one feature would take 3 months. They'd mete out those 100 easy features over the three months so that they didn't appear stalled (they weren't, but management couldn't tell the difference between a stall and a hard problem).
    - thodin 6y ago
      Ok, another example: out famous "Cotton Scandal": http://shorturl.at/fzLPU http://shorturl.at/fzLPU For more than 10 years thousands of party members from soviet republic of Uzbekistan were sending fake data to Moscow (this included corruption on many levels across the country) about production of cotton. Everyone was involved, from top to bottom, I don't see how creation of any network would help with that. In fact programmers across USSR were putting tools into the software for state companies to produce "fixed" results for central planning committee. And in central planning committee they were also corrupt :) (my relative worked there in 80s and I know how it was organized on basic level).
- alentist 6y ago
  What makes you think central planning within a single corporation is comparable to central planning for an entire society? I recommend reading about the theory of the firm to understand why they emerge and what makes them efficient.
mantas 6y ago
Prices did exist in USSR all the way till it eventually failed. But prices, just like currency exchange rate or salaries, had little connection to actual costs. Black markets meanwhile...
- ulzeraj 6y ago
  Apparently those prices were determined mainly by bureaucratic means. Prices encapsulate production costs and demand for a product therefore in a socialist commonwealth bureaucrats and even supercomputers would have to base production on market information using data from capitalist era. By the fall of the SSSR the black market of illegally imported goods constituted a huge chunk of the soviet economy. Also I find intriguing how I got downvoted just by questioning. Makes you wonder how wisely those mod powers are being used.
  - mantas 6y ago
    Why would bureaucrats and/or supercomputers would have to base it on market information? They could keep bending prices as they see fit. By the fall of USSR, big chunks of black market were becoming legal :) Black market was a massive portion of economy throughout USSR existence though. Some people still buy old good CCCP propaganda. And even questioning fairy tale propaganda is bad for those people.

I fail to see how magic advanced computer power would solve the problem of economic calculation in the socialist commonwealth. Without prices there is no efficient distribution of resources.

thrownagain 6y ago

The same way they do so within a single sufficiently large corporation, and the same way the market utterly fails in such a situation. See https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4385-failing-to-plan-how-ayn-rand-destroyed-sears https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4385-failing-to-plan-how-ay...

thodin 6y ago
Private companies are interested in getting real statistics, it was not like that in USSR. Even on largest auto-factory (AvtoVAZ) programmers were creating software with intentional bugs, so they can fix it later, during pre-programmed outages and get some bonuses. No one was interested in sending real statistics to Moscow, from head of local shop to head of large factory.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  To be fair to those programmers, I've seen the same thing (or similar) in the US. It wasn't intentional bugs, but intentional delays in addressing them. That is, they sandbagged. They knew the fixes but didn't apply them so that they could hit monthly/quarterly/whatever targets. Or they knew they could knock out 100 features in a week, but that one feature would take 3 months. They'd mete out those 100 easy features over the three months so that they didn't appear stalled (they weren't, but management couldn't tell the difference between a stall and a hard problem).
  - thodin 6y ago
    Ok, another example: out famous "Cotton Scandal": http://shorturl.at/fzLPU http://shorturl.at/fzLPU For more than 10 years thousands of party members from soviet republic of Uzbekistan were sending fake data to Moscow (this included corruption on many levels across the country) about production of cotton. Everyone was involved, from top to bottom, I don't see how creation of any network would help with that. In fact programmers across USSR were putting tools into the software for state companies to produce "fixed" results for central planning committee. And in central planning committee they were also corrupt :) (my relative worked there in 80s and I know how it was organized on basic level).
alentist 6y ago
What makes you think central planning within a single corporation is comparable to central planning for an entire society? I recommend reading about the theory of the firm to understand why they emerge and what makes them efficient.

mantas 6y ago

Prices did exist in USSR all the way till it eventually failed. But prices, just like currency exchange rate or salaries, had little connection to actual costs. Black markets meanwhile...

ulzeraj 6y ago
Apparently those prices were determined mainly by bureaucratic means. Prices encapsulate production costs and demand for a product therefore in a socialist commonwealth bureaucrats and even supercomputers would have to base production on market information using data from capitalist era. By the fall of the SSSR the black market of illegally imported goods constituted a huge chunk of the soviet economy. Also I find intriguing how I got downvoted just by questioning. Makes you wonder how wisely those mod powers are being used.
- mantas 6y ago
  Why would bureaucrats and/or supercomputers would have to base it on market information? They could keep bending prices as they see fit. By the fall of USSR, big chunks of black market were becoming legal :) Black market was a massive portion of economy throughout USSR existence though. Some people still buy old good CCCP propaganda. And even questioning fairy tale propaganda is bad for those people.