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I don't understand something here.. let's say I sold an app to someone for $100. 1. Someone pays me $100. 2. Apple takes 30%, so I only get $70. 3. Customer

I don't understand something here.. let's say I sold an app to someone for $100. 1. Someone pays me $100. 2. Apple takes 30%, so I only get $70. 3. Customer asks for refund and gets back $100. 4. Apple takes back the $70 from me. If Apple was skimming 30% off from the start, how does that affect me during a refund?

sandyarmstrong 6y ago
The tweet claims that step 4 is "Apples takes back $100 from me." So you have to cover Apple's share in the refund.
- valuearb 6y ago
  The tweets claim is false.
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    This is Apple's US terms for developers of paid apps: > You shall reimburse, or grant Apple a credit for, an amount equal to the price for that subscription. Apple will have the right to retain its commission on the sale of that subscription, notwithstanding the refund of the price to the End-User. If you disagree, please cite a source.
    - xsmasher 6y ago
      Apple says they have that right, but I have not seen them do it. Here's apple deducting a refund from me in 2010, and the amount is exactly what they paid me. https://imgur.com/a/KwKlMXh https://imgur.com/a/KwKlMXh First screen shot is a week with one refund (-$1.40) and ten sales ($14.00 proceeds).
FriendlyNormie 6y ago
Relax and just go along with treating this random tweet like it’s proven to be undeniably true. We’re trying to form a libelous witch hunt against Apple to temporarily crash the stock price. Buy the dip in 30 minutes, friendo.
fatnoah 6y ago
What it means is that for Apple to retain its $30 commission, they'll take $100 from you to refund the customer.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ShinTakuya 6y ago
The answer is that you're thinking of it the wrong way. See it this way: You make 3 sales of $100. One gets refunded. You get paid $200 - $90 = $110 instead of $140, because in practice Apple pays you in batches and doesn't pay immediately for each purchase.
- rconti 6y ago
  Now I'm more confused. I get why it "should" be $140 but I have no idea where the $90 came from.
  - wccrawford 6y ago
    3 sales of $100 ($300) means 3x$30 ($90) in fees for Apple. That should mean 3x$70 for you, $210. But then one of those is refunded. Apple takes $100 from your account and gives it back to the customer. You end up with $110.
  - jmull 6y ago
    I think the previous posted got confused. Should be like: You make three sales of $100 each. One is returned. You get $70 + $70 + $70 - $100 = $110. Apple gets $30 + $30 + $30 - $0 = $90. That is, you get $70 for each purchase but lose $100 for each refund. Apple gets $30 for each purchase and loses $0 for each refund. Apple has real costs for each transaction and the refund is not really its problem so it makes sense that it keep those transaction costs. But those aren't anywhere near 30% (well, actually on a $1-$2 purchase it might be, but too far beyond that).
    - ShinTakuya 6y ago
      Yeah I guess that's a clearer way of explaining it. I thought that part of the explanation was clear but re-reading it, I can see that was the main point that was being missed by the person I responded to.
jccalhoun 6y ago
I am not a developer but I presume that Apple doesn't pay you every single time someone buys your app. So they would take the extra $30 out of your balance with them. Or, if there is no balance they will just put you into negative balance so that the next time you sell a $100 app you will only get $40 instead of $70.
adrianmonk 6y ago
I would guess what happens is actual money does not change hands when a purchase is made. Instead, Apple keeps records of what it owes each developer, and at some later date (likely monthly), it makes one big payment to the developer. Thus at purchase time, Apple enters +$70 in the records it keeps of what it owes a developer. And at refund time, it enters -$100. So the net effect of a purchase and then refund is +$70 + -$100 = -$30.
- atarian 6y ago
  OK, this helped me understand things better. If true, I'm surprised we're just hearing about this now.
marcinzm 6y ago
Apple takes back $100 from you. You now owe them $30 more than they ever paid you.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Nope.
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    This is Apple's US terms for developers of paid apps: > You shall reimburse, or grant Apple a credit for, an amount equal to the price for that subscription. Apple will have the right to retain its commission on the sale of that subscription, notwithstanding the refund of the price to the End-User. If you disagree, please cite a source.
    - sercand 6y ago
      I just looked at our app store connect Sales and Trends page and for a $100 item: Apple proceeds $70 to developer and takes back $70 again from the developer on a refund.
    - xsmasher 6y ago
      See my other reply; apple does not always do this. https://imgur.com/gallery/KwKlMXh https://imgur.com/gallery/KwKlMXh

sandyarmstrong 6y ago

The tweet claims that step 4 is "Apples takes back $100 from me." So you have to cover Apple's share in the refund.

valuearb 6y ago
The tweets claim is false.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  This is Apple's US terms for developers of paid apps: > You shall reimburse, or grant Apple a credit for, an amount equal to the price for that subscription. Apple will have the right to retain its commission on the sale of that subscription, notwithstanding the refund of the price to the End-User. If you disagree, please cite a source.
  - xsmasher 6y ago
    Apple says they have that right, but I have not seen them do it. Here's apple deducting a refund from me in 2010, and the amount is exactly what they paid me. https://imgur.com/a/KwKlMXh https://imgur.com/a/KwKlMXh First screen shot is a week with one refund (-$1.40) and ten sales ($14.00 proceeds).

FriendlyNormie 6y ago

Relax and just go along with treating this random tweet like it’s proven to be undeniably true. We’re trying to form a libelous witch hunt against Apple to temporarily crash the stock price. Buy the dip in 30 minutes, friendo.

fatnoah 6y ago

What it means is that for Apple to retain its $30 commission, they'll take $100 from you to refund the customer.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ShinTakuya 6y ago

The answer is that you're thinking of it the wrong way. See it this way: You make 3 sales of $100. One gets refunded. You get paid $200 - $90 = $110 instead of $140, because in practice Apple pays you in batches and doesn't pay immediately for each purchase.

rconti 6y ago
Now I'm more confused. I get why it "should" be $140 but I have no idea where the $90 came from.
- wccrawford 6y ago
  3 sales of $100 ($300) means 3x$30 ($90) in fees for Apple. That should mean 3x$70 for you, $210. But then one of those is refunded. Apple takes $100 from your account and gives it back to the customer. You end up with $110.
- jmull 6y ago
  I think the previous posted got confused. Should be like: You make three sales of $100 each. One is returned. You get $70 + $70 + $70 - $100 = $110. Apple gets $30 + $30 + $30 - $0 = $90. That is, you get $70 for each purchase but lose $100 for each refund. Apple gets $30 for each purchase and loses $0 for each refund. Apple has real costs for each transaction and the refund is not really its problem so it makes sense that it keep those transaction costs. But those aren't anywhere near 30% (well, actually on a $1-$2 purchase it might be, but too far beyond that).
  - ShinTakuya 6y ago
    Yeah I guess that's a clearer way of explaining it. I thought that part of the explanation was clear but re-reading it, I can see that was the main point that was being missed by the person I responded to.

jccalhoun 6y ago

I am not a developer but I presume that Apple doesn't pay you every single time someone buys your app. So they would take the extra $30 out of your balance with them. Or, if there is no balance they will just put you into negative balance so that the next time you sell a $100 app you will only get $40 instead of $70.

adrianmonk 6y ago

I would guess what happens is actual money does not change hands when a purchase is made. Instead, Apple keeps records of what it owes each developer, and at some later date (likely monthly), it makes one big payment to the developer. Thus at purchase time, Apple enters +$70 in the records it keeps of what it owes a developer. And at refund time, it enters -$100. So the net effect of a purchase and then refund is +$70 + -$100 = -$30.

atarian 6y ago
OK, this helped me understand things better. If true, I'm surprised we're just hearing about this now.

marcinzm 6y ago

Apple takes back $100 from you. You now owe them $30 more than they ever paid you.

valuearb 6y ago
Nope.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  This is Apple's US terms for developers of paid apps: > You shall reimburse, or grant Apple a credit for, an amount equal to the price for that subscription. Apple will have the right to retain its commission on the sale of that subscription, notwithstanding the refund of the price to the End-User. If you disagree, please cite a source.
  - sercand 6y ago
    I just looked at our app store connect Sales and Trends page and for a $100 item: Apple proceeds $70 to developer and takes back $70 again from the developer on a refund.
  - xsmasher 6y ago
    See my other reply; apple does not always do this. https://imgur.com/gallery/KwKlMXh https://imgur.com/gallery/KwKlMXh