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Will they? In some jurisdictions they are required by law to grant refunds. In others, they still have very little incentive to control refund fraud, what with

Will they? In some jurisdictions they are required by law to grant refunds. In others, they still have very little incentive to control refund fraud, what with the fact that they're still making money rather than losing it. It would be one thing if they said "We're keeping the credit card processing fees so that we don't lose money," but to keep the whole 30% cut is just petty.

R0b0t1 6y ago
Are they obligated to do business with you? Typically the answer is no, but some countries (like Germany) stores can't ban people if they're the only store in a town. I'm not sure if this would work for Apple, but it might if you already own an iDevice.
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  I couldn't say. But here's the bit of their terms of service (for USA) that mentions refunds: > All Transactions are final. Content prices may change at any time. If technical problems prevent or unreasonably delay delivery of Content, your exclusive and sole remedy is either replacement of the Content or refund of the price paid, as determined by Apple. From time to time, Apple may refuse a refund request if we find evidence of fraud, refund abuse, or other manipulative behavior that entitles Apple to a corresponding counterclaim. Which makes it sound like they aren't granting refunds at all for anything except failure to deliver the product. And yet when I look at their actual refund request form it has options for "I did not mean to buy this, child bought without permission, I did not mean to subscribe, I did not mean to renew subscription, my purchase did not work as expected, in-app not received." So clearly not all purchases are final. I don't think it's a good look for Apple to be issuing refunds at their sole discretion and then turning around and making someone else pay for it. You're just supposed to trust them that the magic fraud prevention box is doing its best?
  - zmk_ 6y ago
    As far as I know, in EU, you have a right to return anything that you bought online, no questions asked.
asdfaoeu 6y ago
I've never heard of any jurisdiction where unconditional refunds are required. A lot do require refunds if the product is faulty but that's different.
- fnord123 6y ago
  The jurisdiction that will come to most minds is the EU, but it has exemptions for digitally downloaded content and unsealed software. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...
  - wlesieutre 6y ago
    Apple explicitly does not claim that exemption, the 14 day no-questions-asked refund period is called out in their terms and conditions. > Right of cancellation: If you choose to cancel your order, you may do so within 14 days of when you received your receipt, without giving any reason
    - avianlyric 6y ago
      Apple will start applying that exemption if you abuse their refund process. One or two refunds in a short period is usually enough to trigger it, and it disappears again after some “good behaviour”.
      - nyuszika7h 6y ago
        I don't know why you're being downvoted, you're completely right. If your account is flagged, they will show an additional popup like this: https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/01/b7lgr-acuaa_g35-large.png https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/01/b7lgr... It seems pretty random when it's applied though. Some got it after just one refund, meanwhile I've had multiple refunds, and I got that popup once for a $1 purchase but then never again and I was able to request a refund again.
- jahaja 6y ago
avianlyric 6y ago
> In some jurisdictions they are required by law to grant refunds. I think the jurisdiction you’re talking about is the EU, and it’s not quite that clear cut. As a general rule online merchants do need to provide refunds, unless it’s a digital good, and they provided an explicit warning during the checkout flow that the sale isn’t refundable. If you ask for refunds from Apple for apps they’ll introduce that warning into the checkout flow for future app purchases, which will disappear again after enough purchases. So Apple do have some basic, compliant, controls that means you can’t just keep buying apps and getting refunds.

R0b0t1 6y ago

Are they obligated to do business with you? Typically the answer is no, but some countries (like Germany) stores can't ban people if they're the only store in a town. I'm not sure if this would work for Apple, but it might if you already own an iDevice.

wlesieutre 6y ago
I couldn't say. But here's the bit of their terms of service (for USA) that mentions refunds: > All Transactions are final. Content prices may change at any time. If technical problems prevent or unreasonably delay delivery of Content, your exclusive and sole remedy is either replacement of the Content or refund of the price paid, as determined by Apple. From time to time, Apple may refuse a refund request if we find evidence of fraud, refund abuse, or other manipulative behavior that entitles Apple to a corresponding counterclaim. Which makes it sound like they aren't granting refunds at all for anything except failure to deliver the product. And yet when I look at their actual refund request form it has options for "I did not mean to buy this, child bought without permission, I did not mean to subscribe, I did not mean to renew subscription, my purchase did not work as expected, in-app not received." So clearly not all purchases are final. I don't think it's a good look for Apple to be issuing refunds at their sole discretion and then turning around and making someone else pay for it. You're just supposed to trust them that the magic fraud prevention box is doing its best?
- zmk_ 6y ago
  As far as I know, in EU, you have a right to return anything that you bought online, no questions asked.

asdfaoeu 6y ago

I've never heard of any jurisdiction where unconditional refunds are required. A lot do require refunds if the product is faulty but that's different.

fnord123 6y ago
The jurisdiction that will come to most minds is the EU, but it has exemptions for digitally downloaded content and unsealed software. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  Apple explicitly does not claim that exemption, the 14 day no-questions-asked refund period is called out in their terms and conditions. > Right of cancellation: If you choose to cancel your order, you may do so within 14 days of when you received your receipt, without giving any reason
  - avianlyric 6y ago
    Apple will start applying that exemption if you abuse their refund process. One or two refunds in a short period is usually enough to trigger it, and it disappears again after some “good behaviour”.
    - nyuszika7h 6y ago
      I don't know why you're being downvoted, you're completely right. If your account is flagged, they will show an additional popup like this: https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/01/b7lgr-acuaa_g35-large.png https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/01/b7lgr... It seems pretty random when it's applied though. Some got it after just one refund, meanwhile I've had multiple refunds, and I got that popup once for a $1 purchase but then never again and I was able to request a refund again.
jahaja 6y ago

avianlyric 6y ago

> In some jurisdictions they are required by law to grant refunds. I think the jurisdiction you’re talking about is the EU, and it’s not quite that clear cut. As a general rule online merchants do need to provide refunds, unless it’s a digital good, and they provided an explicit warning during the checkout flow that the sale isn’t refundable. If you ask for refunds from Apple for apps they’ll introduce that warning into the checkout flow for future app purchases, which will disappear again after enough purchases. So Apple do have some basic, compliant, controls that means you can’t just keep buying apps and getting refunds.