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>The US legalized same sex marriage in 2003 This an extremely disengenous thing to say. As you well know, in most of the US, it was not possible for gay couple

by foldr 6y ago

>The US legalized same sex marriage in 2003 This an extremely disengenous thing to say. As you well know, in most of the US, it was not possible for gay couples to get married in 2003. Nor, if they did, were their rights as married couples guaranteed or enforceable across the whole nation. You should also note that the UK introduced civil partnerships in 2004. So for most of the period from 2003-2015, a typical British gay couple had better legal protections available than their American counterparts. But all this is off topic, really. >And of course, same sex-marriage is still against the adopted policy of the UK's official churches It's also against the policy of many US churches, and they are similarly not required by law to perform same sex marriages. Beyond that, you are reading much into my comment that clearly isn't there, and going off on a number of tangents. There's no "smugness", or suggestion that the UK is better than the US. I am merely talking about one specific feature of US society (extensive de facto racial segregation). Please take the time to actually read what I'm saying rather than responding to some imaginary caricature of a smug Brit. In any case I'm at a loss to see what your overall point is. Suppose that the UK is worse than the US in every way. Does that somehow mean that segregation in the US is ok? Of course not. >49 rainbow seats Those are a memorial to the victims of the Pulse shooting. It's quite sick and weird to use that memorial as evidence of progress in LGBT rights.

brudgers 6y ago
The Church of England is a state supported institution headed by the monarch. It's positions are those of the head-of-state. The US does not have an official state church and it's head of state is not by right the head of any church. Or to put it another way, the Queen could change CoE policy by the same means Henry VIII created it. The smugness is talking about the US like it is the UK. Nearly 300 million Europeans live in countries with constitutional bans on same sex marriage. Pulse happened less than two miles from the house where my parents live. Where I grew up. In 1991 I had arthroscopic surgery in a building on the same block but fronting Kaley. In the 80's I worked in a sandwich shop on the next block north on Orange Ave, had a friend with an apartment on Esther two houses down on the other side of Orange Ave. I took a date to eat in the building Pulse was in during High School...it was an Italian restaurant for many many years. I went to the site two months after the shooting while visiting my parents. One of my high-school soccer teammates at the high school a mile down the road from Pulse was a youth coach on the girls side of the Orlando Lions academy. I was at the Lions first home game in 2015. I've been around Orlando's soccer culture since 1977. The WSL team is called "The Pride." It's a double-entendre. For the Lions and for Gay Pride. The rainbow seats aren't military propaganda ala poppy pinning. Yes, they honor the victims of Pulse. They honor them by recognizing that the shooting was an act of hate. An act of homophobia. They honor the victims by asserting that the hate at Pulse affected all Orlandoeans because it was hate. I know people who went to Pulse while it was Pulse. My siblings have friends who were directly touched by the shooting. What I said about Pulse makes me sick, but not in the way you impute. San Francisco has had domestic partnerships since 1990. California since 1999. Vermont since 2000. Stonewall is a National Monument created by Obama. England is about the same size as Alabama. And perhaps more provincial. The Orlando Pride is full of "out footballers". And though Robbie Rogers had to leave English football for coming out, he had full public support by the MLS and was able to resume his career here.
- foldr 6y ago
  I think you want to have a silly argument about the US vs the UK (or actually the US vs Europe, which is even less relevant to my original comment). I did not make any claims about which is "better", so there's really nothing to talk about here. That is, unless you wish to continue going on long rants, telling your life story, using the mass murder of gay people as an example of progress, and making wholly inaccurate claims about the history of gay rights in the US. State-level civil partnerships are, as you know, of marginal value when not recognized by the federal government, which all Americans have to deal with. And it's inarguable that in the years following the introducing of civil partnerships in the UK, gay people in Britain were able to have their relationships recognized legally more effectively than gay people in the US (particularly with regard to e.g. spousal visas). >England is about the same size as Alabama. And perhaps more provincial. Alabama has a population of 5 million. The UK has a population of 67 million. England has a population of 56 million. London by itself has a higher population than Alabama and is vastly more diverse and outward-looking. From the examples you use in your comment, I can only assume that you just don't know much about the UK. E.g., there are also plenty of memorials to various LGBT causes in the UK. There is nothing particularly remarkable about this. > [The Church of England's] positions are those of the head-of-state. America doesn't have an established church, so it's hard to make a sensible comparison. The current American head of state doesn't support gay marriage either, by the way :) It's not really true that the Church's position is the Queen's position. The Queen, though head of the Church, also signed into law the legislation that legalized gay marriage. The girl wears a lot of hats. >the Queen could change CoE policy Actually she couldn't. This would be a violation of long-standing constitutional norms.
  - brudgers 6y ago
    England doesn’t have a constitution. English “norms” are what forced Meghan from royal duties. I mean it’s hard to come up with anything more inherently racist than hereditary monarchy. But one which maintains an armed overseas enclave to enforce anti-Roman Catholic policy is unfortunately a good start. Saying “it’s our tradition” doesn’t make the monarch’s inaction any less a condoning of hate and discrimination. Tradition, however, is how they justify hate and discrimination in Alabama.

by foldr 6y ago

brudgers 6y ago

The Church of England is a state supported institution headed by the monarch. It's positions are those of the head-of-state. The US does not have an official state church and it's head of state is not by right the head of any church. Or to put it another way, the Queen could change CoE policy by the same means Henry VIII created it. The smugness is talking about the US like it is the UK. Nearly 300 million Europeans live in countries with constitutional bans on same sex marriage. Pulse happened less than two miles from the house where my parents live. Where I grew up. In 1991 I had arthroscopic surgery in a building on the same block but fronting Kaley. In the 80's I worked in a sandwich shop on the next block north on Orange Ave, had a friend with an apartment on Esther two houses down on the other side of Orange Ave. I took a date to eat in the building Pulse was in during High School...it was an Italian restaurant for many many years. I went to the site two months after the shooting while visiting my parents. One of my high-school soccer teammates at the high school a mile down the road from Pulse was a youth coach on the girls side of the Orlando Lions academy. I was at the Lions first home game in 2015. I've been around Orlando's soccer culture since 1977. The WSL team is called "The Pride." It's a double-entendre. For the Lions and for Gay Pride. The rainbow seats aren't military propaganda ala poppy pinning. Yes, they honor the victims of Pulse. They honor them by recognizing that the shooting was an act of hate. An act of homophobia. They honor the victims by asserting that the hate at Pulse affected all Orlandoeans because it was hate. I know people who went to Pulse while it was Pulse. My siblings have friends who were directly touched by the shooting. What I said about Pulse makes me sick, but not in the way you impute. San Francisco has had domestic partnerships since 1990. California since 1999. Vermont since 2000. Stonewall is a National Monument created by Obama. England is about the same size as Alabama. And perhaps more provincial. The Orlando Pride is full of "out footballers". And though Robbie Rogers had to leave English football for coming out, he had full public support by the MLS and was able to resume his career here.

foldr 6y ago
I think you want to have a silly argument about the US vs the UK (or actually the US vs Europe, which is even less relevant to my original comment). I did not make any claims about which is "better", so there's really nothing to talk about here. That is, unless you wish to continue going on long rants, telling your life story, using the mass murder of gay people as an example of progress, and making wholly inaccurate claims about the history of gay rights in the US. State-level civil partnerships are, as you know, of marginal value when not recognized by the federal government, which all Americans have to deal with. And it's inarguable that in the years following the introducing of civil partnerships in the UK, gay people in Britain were able to have their relationships recognized legally more effectively than gay people in the US (particularly with regard to e.g. spousal visas). >England is about the same size as Alabama. And perhaps more provincial. Alabama has a population of 5 million. The UK has a population of 67 million. England has a population of 56 million. London by itself has a higher population than Alabama and is vastly more diverse and outward-looking. From the examples you use in your comment, I can only assume that you just don't know much about the UK. E.g., there are also plenty of memorials to various LGBT causes in the UK. There is nothing particularly remarkable about this. > [The Church of England's] positions are those of the head-of-state. America doesn't have an established church, so it's hard to make a sensible comparison. The current American head of state doesn't support gay marriage either, by the way :) It's not really true that the Church's position is the Queen's position. The Queen, though head of the Church, also signed into law the legislation that legalized gay marriage. The girl wears a lot of hats. >the Queen could change CoE policy Actually she couldn't. This would be a violation of long-standing constitutional norms.
- brudgers 6y ago
  England doesn’t have a constitution. English “norms” are what forced Meghan from royal duties. I mean it’s hard to come up with anything more inherently racist than hereditary monarchy. But one which maintains an armed overseas enclave to enforce anti-Roman Catholic policy is unfortunately a good start. Saying “it’s our tradition” doesn’t make the monarch’s inaction any less a condoning of hate and discrimination. Tradition, however, is how they justify hate and discrimination in Alabama.