4 ms·

> successfully alleviated symptoms Again, you don't know that. You can't establish causation, particularly when N=2, and even more so when you do not know whet

> successfully alleviated symptoms Again, you don't know that. You can't establish causation, particularly when N=2, and even more so when you do not know whether or not you had Covid-19. Yes, I understand you fully acknowledge you may not have had it, but that acknowledgement contradicts that claim that zinc consumption alleviated its effects. What you can say is that you may have had Covid-19, and increased zinc consumption may have helped.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
Look, I don't know what the disconnect is here. I have a genetic disorder. My son has a genetic disorder. We use diet to mitigate health issues regularly. I do know for an absolute fact what I have stated as clearly as I can figure out how to state: that increased zinc consumption mitigated the unusual problems we were having that aren't typical for us and which we firmly believe were due to Covid-19. I have stated clearly that we were never tested, so, no, I can't prove we had it. I can still believe we had it and I don't think it should be anywhere near this much drama to say I believe we had it when I've stated clearly that this is a belief unverified by testing, so I certainly cannot prove it. I have stated clearly -- and repeatedly -- that my anecdote isn't a recommendation for treatment. I think it did mitigate symptoms from Covid-19. I admit I can't prove it was Covid-19. I've stated that repeatedly. And whatever was wrong with us, zinc helped. You are entirely free to think it's worthless data because we were never tested. I've done everything in my power to distinguish as clearly as I can my opinion from verifiable fact. I am telling you "zinc helped" is in the category of fact in my mind and what it helped with was "probably Covid-19" is my opinion. I'm planning to walk away at this point. It never ceases to amaze me how much other people have some big problem with me having opinions about my own health status like me thinking about my own health is some kind of serious crime on the order of impersonating a surgeon.
- scott_s 6y ago
  The disconnect is that we disagree on how to establish causation. I follow what I believe to be the generally accepted standard that when dealing with only two people, it’s not valid to assume that medical intervention x, later followed by health status y is not enough to establish that x causes y. It appears you do think that’s a valid way to establish causation, hence we disagree.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    That's a reasonable position. The problem here is you and other people hound me and insist I must be wrong and have no right to state my opinion about my health, no matter how carefully I qualify it. That's not a reasonable position. I get that you disagree. I expect people to not be convinced that I'm right. Skepticism is warranted. What's not warranted is harassment. Repeatedly insisting that I cannot possibly know what I believe to be true when I have already agreed with you that my statements are opinion, inference, etc and unverified by testing is harassment. I have my reasons why I am confident in my conclusions. No one cares to hear those reasons. They just want me to capitulate, admit defeat and announce that I'm wrong and stupid -- both factually and morally -- for engaging in the same behavior many other people engage in on a regular basis without being similarly mistreated. (That behavior being telling an anecdote about my health and stating a personal opinion about my own experience.) I'm not capitulating. No one is required to agree with me or be at all interested in what I think about my own health or about health generally. But, like any other human, I am entitled to have an opinion about my own health. I'm not going to pretend that I think you are right when I don't think you are right just because you insist over and over again that my opinion is, in your opinion, factually wrong. You are not more right than me. Just as I cannot prove I had Covid-19, you cannot prove I did not. Thus you cannot prove my opinion is factually wrong anymore than I can prove it is factually right, yet you feel some strange compulsion to try to insist that your unprovable opinion about my life is somehow more right than my unprovable opinion about my own life.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

DoreenMichele 6y ago

Look, I don't know what the disconnect is here. I have a genetic disorder. My son has a genetic disorder. We use diet to mitigate health issues regularly. I do know for an absolute fact what I have stated as clearly as I can figure out how to state: that increased zinc consumption mitigated the unusual problems we were having that aren't typical for us and which we firmly believe were due to Covid-19. I have stated clearly that we were never tested, so, no, I can't prove we had it. I can still believe we had it and I don't think it should be anywhere near this much drama to say I believe we had it when I've stated clearly that this is a belief unverified by testing, so I certainly cannot prove it. I have stated clearly -- and repeatedly -- that my anecdote isn't a recommendation for treatment. I think it did mitigate symptoms from Covid-19. I admit I can't prove it was Covid-19. I've stated that repeatedly. And whatever was wrong with us, zinc helped. You are entirely free to think it's worthless data because we were never tested. I've done everything in my power to distinguish as clearly as I can my opinion from verifiable fact. I am telling you "zinc helped" is in the category of fact in my mind and what it helped with was "probably Covid-19" is my opinion. I'm planning to walk away at this point. It never ceases to amaze me how much other people have some big problem with me having opinions about my own health status like me thinking about my own health is some kind of serious crime on the order of impersonating a surgeon.

scott_s 6y ago
The disconnect is that we disagree on how to establish causation. I follow what I believe to be the generally accepted standard that when dealing with only two people, it’s not valid to assume that medical intervention x, later followed by health status y is not enough to establish that x causes y. It appears you do think that’s a valid way to establish causation, hence we disagree.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  That's a reasonable position. The problem here is you and other people hound me and insist I must be wrong and have no right to state my opinion about my health, no matter how carefully I qualify it. That's not a reasonable position. I get that you disagree. I expect people to not be convinced that I'm right. Skepticism is warranted. What's not warranted is harassment. Repeatedly insisting that I cannot possibly know what I believe to be true when I have already agreed with you that my statements are opinion, inference, etc and unverified by testing is harassment. I have my reasons why I am confident in my conclusions. No one cares to hear those reasons. They just want me to capitulate, admit defeat and announce that I'm wrong and stupid -- both factually and morally -- for engaging in the same behavior many other people engage in on a regular basis without being similarly mistreated. (That behavior being telling an anecdote about my health and stating a personal opinion about my own experience.) I'm not capitulating. No one is required to agree with me or be at all interested in what I think about my own health or about health generally. But, like any other human, I am entitled to have an opinion about my own health. I'm not going to pretend that I think you are right when I don't think you are right just because you insist over and over again that my opinion is, in your opinion, factually wrong. You are not more right than me. Just as I cannot prove I had Covid-19, you cannot prove I did not. Thus you cannot prove my opinion is factually wrong anymore than I can prove it is factually right, yet you feel some strange compulsion to try to insist that your unprovable opinion about my life is somehow more right than my unprovable opinion about my own life.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]