5 ms·

I absolutely do not publicly state my beliefs, or even state them in writing anywhere that could conceivably be accessed publicly. This is for two reasons: one

I absolutely do not publicly state my beliefs, or even state them in writing anywhere that could conceivably be accessed publicly. This is for two reasons: one, I doubt anyone cares to hear yet another voice in the cacophony; and two, there is plenty of prior precedent for someone saying something online and a digital mob descending on them and making their lives hell. That doesn't even consider government surveillance, which adds a whole 'nother angle. So, there's no incentive for me to share, and a strong disincentive.

Balgair 6y ago
But you share your opinions here. Your comment history has opinions in it, however niche. And your profile links to your personal website. What am I missing?
- bovermyer 6y ago
  Let me add additional context - my controversial political opinions have never made it out of verbal conversations and into writing. Better?
Frondo 6y ago
I also don't say controversial things online or over the phone -- secured channels okay still -- but not because I give a shit about "digital mob" (give me a break!); What worries me is how the three-letter agencies vacuum it all up and have now started disappearing people, literally, under the guise of "stopping riots".
- gowld 6y ago
  Who has been disappeared? Is there a known name of someone reported missing? Being arrested and released within hours is not "disappeared", at least not more than has always been happening.
froasty 6y ago
The incentive for you to share your beliefs is that if you will not lead, someone else, invariably less discerning, less principled, and less honest will. This used to be considered a fundamental precept of Western civilization and its legislators, popularly stated as "[t]hose who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who aren't." The historiography of this period, if humans remain extant, will discover the causal link between the rise of New Atheism and the rise of intellectual cowardice that by necessity emerged shortly after the implicit social norms of Christianity were intentionally jettisoned. Being willing to sacrifice, not to inflict violence but to actively suffer, for the truth that one witnesses is a fundamental predicate of Western civilization. Even the Christian heretics of the middle ages, willfully executed for their idiosyncratic beliefs, viewed this as a sacrosanct duty as a human being. If a polity actively consents to the silencing of the individual's ability to testify to their truth for the sake of Mammon, state persecution, the possibility of being stoned by a crowd of True Believers, or any other exercise of temporal power, civilization, that is the ability of a group of diverse individuals to exist for a future commonweal, is impossible to maintain. The honest and earnest among this and past generations have voluntarily silenced and removed themselves from the possibility of being spiritual and intellectual leaders. The only result that can come of this abdication of responsibility is not their own safety but the endangerment of everyone within that society. If you will not lead, you will be led by those that aren't so fearful, so future-minded, or scrupulous. If you would pretend to be blind, you will be led by the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
- throwawydedbee 6y ago
  It's one thing to choose to suffer. It's another thing entirely to ask your loved ones to suffer. The current cultural revolution we are living through is simply mowing people down, decent or not. Take a look at this letter from the MIT chaplain, who was fired for posting it. Although I am not religious, it is a simple statement of hard truths by an apparently decent man. There is simply nothing in here for a reasonable person to object to. https://newbostonpost.com/2020/06/19/heres-what-the-m-i-t-catholic-chaplain-got-fired-over/ https://newbostonpost.com/2020/06/19/heres-what-the-m-i-t-ca... It is a sort of suffering, but I no longer post on the Internet, even in places like HN. It's just too dangerous. There are a lot of smart people out there, and if they want to find you, they will. And as we're seeing, violence is not off the table.
muzika 6y ago
Same here. This is why our (general public) voices are overshadowed by those of politically motivated people and bots on social media.
grazhero99 6y ago
I could be wrong, but lately I've been taking the approach that as long as I state my beliefs with as much reasonability and clarity as I can possibly muster, and am willing to admit when I'm wrong, I'll ultimately be vindicated if a groupthinking hate mod were to target me. The intense fervor that fuels those mobs can't last forever. I've seen this play out many times on the internet, and it seems a common thread is that the targeted person in these situations is often unable to keep it together while under the intense stress, and ends up making the situation way worse for themselves. Learning how to stay level headed and when not to engage will take you a long way.
- welcome_dragon 6y ago
  Sadly, I disagree about being ultimately vindicated. Or, more exactly, I would say "so what"?". As in, you say something that pushes someone's buttons and you get called out on it. Maybe you don't make the "news" but enough people hear about it. Your employer fires you because otherwise they are considered to be supporting you. Eventually, you're vindicated but the damage has been done. Personally, I think everyone needs to take a step back and have a conversation first. I mean people do learn from their past mistakes, people grow, people change. The idea that my life can be flipped upside down because of something I posted on a BBS when I was in high school (yes, I'm old) is insane.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- account42 6y ago
  Sure, you can tell people who are being harrassed and bullied to just suck it up and turn the other cheek lest they want to be condemned for punching back. Some people might even be able to do that without permanent harm. That doesn't make the mob OK. It doesn't mean that living with the prospect of having to endure that won't have a chilling effect.
  - grazhero99 6y ago
    I'm not defending the mob. I'm just trying to make the best I can of this shitty situation we all have to deal with.

Balgair 6y ago

But you share your opinions here. Your comment history has opinions in it, however niche. And your profile links to your personal website. What am I missing?

bovermyer 6y ago
Let me add additional context - my controversial political opinions have never made it out of verbal conversations and into writing. Better?

Frondo 6y ago

I also don't say controversial things online or over the phone -- secured channels okay still -- but not because I give a shit about "digital mob" (give me a break!); What worries me is how the three-letter agencies vacuum it all up and have now started disappearing people, literally, under the guise of "stopping riots".

gowld 6y ago
Who has been disappeared? Is there a known name of someone reported missing? Being arrested and released within hours is not "disappeared", at least not more than has always been happening.

froasty 6y ago

The incentive for you to share your beliefs is that if you will not lead, someone else, invariably less discerning, less principled, and less honest will. This used to be considered a fundamental precept of Western civilization and its legislators, popularly stated as "[t]hose who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who aren't." The historiography of this period, if humans remain extant, will discover the causal link between the rise of New Atheism and the rise of intellectual cowardice that by necessity emerged shortly after the implicit social norms of Christianity were intentionally jettisoned. Being willing to sacrifice, not to inflict violence but to actively suffer, for the truth that one witnesses is a fundamental predicate of Western civilization. Even the Christian heretics of the middle ages, willfully executed for their idiosyncratic beliefs, viewed this as a sacrosanct duty as a human being. If a polity actively consents to the silencing of the individual's ability to testify to their truth for the sake of Mammon, state persecution, the possibility of being stoned by a crowd of True Believers, or any other exercise of temporal power, civilization, that is the ability of a group of diverse individuals to exist for a future commonweal, is impossible to maintain. The honest and earnest among this and past generations have voluntarily silenced and removed themselves from the possibility of being spiritual and intellectual leaders. The only result that can come of this abdication of responsibility is not their own safety but the endangerment of everyone within that society. If you will not lead, you will be led by those that aren't so fearful, so future-minded, or scrupulous. If you would pretend to be blind, you will be led by the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

throwawydedbee 6y ago
It's one thing to choose to suffer. It's another thing entirely to ask your loved ones to suffer. The current cultural revolution we are living through is simply mowing people down, decent or not. Take a look at this letter from the MIT chaplain, who was fired for posting it. Although I am not religious, it is a simple statement of hard truths by an apparently decent man. There is simply nothing in here for a reasonable person to object to. https://newbostonpost.com/2020/06/19/heres-what-the-m-i-t-catholic-chaplain-got-fired-over/ https://newbostonpost.com/2020/06/19/heres-what-the-m-i-t-ca... It is a sort of suffering, but I no longer post on the Internet, even in places like HN. It's just too dangerous. There are a lot of smart people out there, and if they want to find you, they will. And as we're seeing, violence is not off the table.

muzika 6y ago

Same here. This is why our (general public) voices are overshadowed by those of politically motivated people and bots on social media.

grazhero99 6y ago

I could be wrong, but lately I've been taking the approach that as long as I state my beliefs with as much reasonability and clarity as I can possibly muster, and am willing to admit when I'm wrong, I'll ultimately be vindicated if a groupthinking hate mod were to target me. The intense fervor that fuels those mobs can't last forever. I've seen this play out many times on the internet, and it seems a common thread is that the targeted person in these situations is often unable to keep it together while under the intense stress, and ends up making the situation way worse for themselves. Learning how to stay level headed and when not to engage will take you a long way.

welcome_dragon 6y ago
Sadly, I disagree about being ultimately vindicated. Or, more exactly, I would say "so what"?". As in, you say something that pushes someone's buttons and you get called out on it. Maybe you don't make the "news" but enough people hear about it. Your employer fires you because otherwise they are considered to be supporting you. Eventually, you're vindicated but the damage has been done. Personally, I think everyone needs to take a step back and have a conversation first. I mean people do learn from their past mistakes, people grow, people change. The idea that my life can be flipped upside down because of something I posted on a BBS when I was in high school (yes, I'm old) is insane.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
account42 6y ago
Sure, you can tell people who are being harrassed and bullied to just suck it up and turn the other cheek lest they want to be condemned for punching back. Some people might even be able to do that without permanent harm. That doesn't make the mob OK. It doesn't mean that living with the prospect of having to endure that won't have a chilling effect.
- grazhero99 6y ago
  I'm not defending the mob. I'm just trying to make the best I can of this shitty situation we all have to deal with.