4 ms·

Proteus: Underwater research lab worthy of a Bond villain

24 points by shivghosh8 6y ago

sradman 6y ago
> The plan is to build Proteus off the coast of the Caribbean island of Curaçao, at a depth of 60 feet (~18m). An underwater lab at only 2 atmospheres on an island famous for its shore diving accessible by car? This reminds me of a Freeman Dyson quote I referenced [0] in a different thread on underwater exploration: > [The Russians] are very proud of the space station and for good reasons. They believe that human activities in space are an end in itself, essentially as an international sporting event. They don't sell it under false pretences as a scientific program. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23482656 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23482656 [1] https://perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/living-through-four-revolutions https://perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/living-through-four-rev...
- wdb 6y ago
  Why do they want to build in near Curaçao? Sounds like a great way to ruin the already weak water ecosystem near Curacao. I have to admit I have a summer house in Curaçao so might be biased.
  - sradman 6y ago
    I suspect that the same characteristics that make Bonaire and Curaçao a haven for shore diving simplify the design of the underwater lab: > Fresh air, power and internet will be provided by an umbilical cable to the surface.
sparsely 6y ago
Someone's been playing too much Subnautica
sandworm101 6y ago
>> One of the other big names he's enlisted is Yves Béhar, a name you might recognize from a variety of tech projects like One Laptop per Child. He and his company Fuzeproject designed the futuristic-looking station. Um ... wasn't that the premise behind an Archer episode? Sea Tunt? The rich Tunt brother had backed both the sea base and one laptop per child. Is this the tail wagging the dog or at some personal level is there a link to the show?
- makerofspoons 6y ago
  That is an interesting connection for sure. The gag was "One Laptop per Child Soldier": https://archer.fandom.com/wiki/Cecil_Tunt https://archer.fandom.com/wiki/Cecil_Tunt
GekkePrutser 6y ago
I don't really get this - is the bends the only reason for doing this? If so, why not mix some other inert gas than Nitrogen that doesn't have the problem? Cool base though :)
gambiting 6y ago
So.....an underwater lab where the whole premise is not having to do a lengthy decompression....and yet it's only down at 18m depth? Reading the article I thought they were aiming for much deeper than that, it seems like there's hardly any benefit at the dept given. According to this[0] table, decompression from that depth takes just 2 hours? [0] https://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/dvis5.pdf https://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/dvis5.pdf
- sandworm101 6y ago
  If we are comparing this thing to the ISS, an emergency return from the ISS would take just under five hours. So someone with an appendicitis can probably get home before dying. Much further away than a few hours and otherwise routine medical emergencies start get much more difficult.
  - fastball 6y ago
    That's why you just send the doctor down to the sea lab!
    - sradman 6y ago
      Or have a chamber nearby on the surface staffed by doctors trained in hyperbaric medicine [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbaric_medicine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbaric_medicine
    - aerostable_slug 6y ago
      And how else would you evaluate tissue samples from $MONSTER?
- averros 6y ago
  The important part about ascent from depth is ratio of pressure at initial depth to decompression stop depth. So 10m to surface is 2x, 20m to 10m is 1.5x, and with depth the ratio becomes smaller and smaller. It's the last 10-20m of ascent which are the most critical WRT decompression illness (and this is also the reason why even recreational divers who do not need decompression still do safety stop at 4-6m). Placing the lab at 18m down is a good balance between dramatic reduction in decompression time for deeper dives and simpler (cheaper, more reliable, etc) life support systems, as well as ability to get in and out within a reasonable time. To reduce the need to decompress after staying at the station the atmosphere there could be enriched in oxygen. At deeper locations you'd need to seriously worry about long-term oxygen toxicity (and thus use helium mixes, which is both expensive and brings other issues, the first being the need to certify divers for use of mixed gasses - that requires training way in excess of what most researchers would have). (Full disclosure: I'm a technical diver:)
Cantbekhan 6y ago
It's worth mentioning that there were many similar and even larger (and also much deeper) underwater labs and habitats since the 1960s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_habitat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_habitat
slowhand09 6y ago
Funny the story completely missed "Fantastic Voyage" movie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Voyage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Voyage) which had a research submarine called "Proteus".
- aerostable_slug 6y ago
  I was happy to read that at least some of the journalists covering Victor Vescovo's recent dives got the references in his vessel names (I think it's not unlikely the later ones cribbed off the first few articles).

24 points by shivghosh8 6y ago

> The plan is to build Proteus off the coast of the Caribbean island of Curaçao, at a depth of 60 feet (~18m). An underwater lab at only 2 atmospheres on an island famous for its shore diving accessible by car? This reminds me of a Freeman Dyson quote I referenced [0] in a different thread on underwater exploration: > [The Russians] are very proud of the space station and for good reasons. They believe that human activities in space are an end in itself, essentially as an international sporting event. They don't sell it under false pretences as a scientific program. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23482656 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23482656 [1] https://perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/living-through-four-revolutions https://perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/living-through-four-rev...

wdb 6y ago
Why do they want to build in near Curaçao? Sounds like a great way to ruin the already weak water ecosystem near Curacao. I have to admit I have a summer house in Curaçao so might be biased.
- sradman 6y ago
  I suspect that the same characteristics that make Bonaire and Curaçao a haven for shore diving simplify the design of the underwater lab: > Fresh air, power and internet will be provided by an umbilical cable to the surface.

sparsely 6y ago

Someone's been playing too much Subnautica

sandworm101 6y ago

>> One of the other big names he's enlisted is Yves Béhar, a name you might recognize from a variety of tech projects like One Laptop per Child. He and his company Fuzeproject designed the futuristic-looking station. Um ... wasn't that the premise behind an Archer episode? Sea Tunt? The rich Tunt brother had backed both the sea base and one laptop per child. Is this the tail wagging the dog or at some personal level is there a link to the show?

makerofspoons 6y ago
That is an interesting connection for sure. The gag was "One Laptop per Child Soldier": https://archer.fandom.com/wiki/Cecil_Tunt https://archer.fandom.com/wiki/Cecil_Tunt

GekkePrutser 6y ago

I don't really get this - is the bends the only reason for doing this? If so, why not mix some other inert gas than Nitrogen that doesn't have the problem? Cool base though :)

gambiting 6y ago

So.....an underwater lab where the whole premise is not having to do a lengthy decompression....and yet it's only down at 18m depth? Reading the article I thought they were aiming for much deeper than that, it seems like there's hardly any benefit at the dept given. According to this[0] table, decompression from that depth takes just 2 hours? [0] https://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/dvis5.pdf https://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/dvis5.pdf

sandworm101 6y ago
If we are comparing this thing to the ISS, an emergency return from the ISS would take just under five hours. So someone with an appendicitis can probably get home before dying. Much further away than a few hours and otherwise routine medical emergencies start get much more difficult.
- fastball 6y ago
  That's why you just send the doctor down to the sea lab!
  - sradman 6y ago
    Or have a chamber nearby on the surface staffed by doctors trained in hyperbaric medicine [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbaric_medicine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbaric_medicine
  - aerostable_slug 6y ago
    And how else would you evaluate tissue samples from $MONSTER?
averros 6y ago
The important part about ascent from depth is ratio of pressure at initial depth to decompression stop depth. So 10m to surface is 2x, 20m to 10m is 1.5x, and with depth the ratio becomes smaller and smaller. It's the last 10-20m of ascent which are the most critical WRT decompression illness (and this is also the reason why even recreational divers who do not need decompression still do safety stop at 4-6m). Placing the lab at 18m down is a good balance between dramatic reduction in decompression time for deeper dives and simpler (cheaper, more reliable, etc) life support systems, as well as ability to get in and out within a reasonable time. To reduce the need to decompress after staying at the station the atmosphere there could be enriched in oxygen. At deeper locations you'd need to seriously worry about long-term oxygen toxicity (and thus use helium mixes, which is both expensive and brings other issues, the first being the need to certify divers for use of mixed gasses - that requires training way in excess of what most researchers would have). (Full disclosure: I'm a technical diver:)

Cantbekhan 6y ago

It's worth mentioning that there were many similar and even larger (and also much deeper) underwater labs and habitats since the 1960s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_habitat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_habitat

slowhand09 6y ago

Funny the story completely missed "Fantastic Voyage" movie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Voyage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Voyage) which had a research submarine called "Proteus".

aerostable_slug 6y ago
I was happy to read that at least some of the journalists covering Victor Vescovo's recent dives got the references in his vessel names (I think it's not unlikely the later ones cribbed off the first few articles).