6 ms·

Amazon Has Too Much Power

38 points by pcl 6y ago

NoOneNew 6y ago
Okay, so I do believe in worker's rights and in general that Amazon is too large. Especially that city bidding mess where it was just a way to get free data from cities about their future plans. But I don't like the argument in the article. It lays the responsibility of government to fix something that the public can have a bigger influence on. It's something I do. Don't buy from Amazon. I don't approve of their warehouse policies. Thus, I choose not to buy from them. It's not like they are the only shop on the web. The convenience argument is rather petty too. At a certain point, you have to put adult pants on. You are just funding them in doing what you don't like if you wait for someone else to "fix" the problem.
- bilal4hmed 6y ago
  this, there are so many options to buy from that aren't Amazon. I've been in so many discussions with friends on this matter and when I ask them why they don't shop elsewhere, it always boils down to these two scenarios Amazon makes it so easy for me to buy, I don't have to think. Have you tried the others ?? No
  - ytdytvhxgydvhh 6y ago
    I agree with you both in theory and I’ve limited my purchasing from Amazon for such reasons. But I’ve come across products where the company has a first-party website to promote their product, but no first-party way to actually purchase the product. They just have links to go buy at Amazon. For now these are rarities but I’d be concerned that it becomes more common without government intervention.
    - Theory5 6y ago
      Amazon makes money by being so damn easy to spend your money and get products. One click buying probably increased the average American's monthly spending a decent percentage alone. Making it just as easy for third party sellers is a no brainier, and will only increase their influence and grasp. Especially if they can cut small business overhead significantly. Today, why would anyone want the overhead of building and maintaining an ecommerce site when their business is too small to do it without lots of money and additional overhead.
  - adamsea 6y ago
    Respectfully I don't think it's as easy as you think. Consider, for a non-tech person: 1. I have to be told or take the time to discover the non-Amazon option exists. And (though I haven't tested it) my guess is these days it takes a while to use Google (the default search tool for folks) to find an alternative. 2. I have to assess if I trust this new alternative. 3. I have to figure out how this new alternative works. For non-technical folks, depending on their background and how good or bad the UX for a site is, this could be a blocker. 4. I have to search on the new site for what I want. 5. I have to check how long the new site will take to deliver the item. 6. I have to enter payment information which again raises the question of trust. All of these small (or not so small) frictions add up, IMHO, and it's not anyone's fault. It's just human behavior. Amazon has a great customer experience when it comes to the items I listed. The problem as we know isn't that - it's how they stifle competition and help create the conditions in which they are the only company with this level of customer service. Oh yeah, and Amazon's abusive labor practices when it comes to the people it hires to work in it's warehouses.
- rmcpherson 6y ago
  Unionization, as argued for in the op-ed, is something that’s legal right now. We just need government to enforce the laws already in place. Laws paid for with the blood of the labor movement in the early 20th century. Unfortunately regulatory capture has eviscerated the agencies and government bodies tasked with upholding those laws.
  - NoOneNew 6y ago
    Doesn't help when the general public bank rolls companies to fight laws and regulatory actions. That's my point. The money Amazon uses doesn't magically appear. These companies dont use spells to generate income, it comes from the people. I swear, it seems like folks dont know how business works these days. The people are voting with dollars saying Amazon is doing the right thing when they buy from Amazon. That's the reality. People generally dont want to see themselves as being accessories to this mess and just say, "the gov isn't doing enough to stop Amazon from abusing workers... I totally need to buy that new widget, good thing I have Prime shipping."
    - Barrin92 6y ago
      > The people are voting with dollars saying Amazon is doing the right thing when they buy from Amazon. That's the reality. And how is that justification? If people buy cheap stuff made from prison or child labour does that justify the practise? It just tells us that people by and large are indifferent to the conditions under which their goods are produced, it's not a justification for it. That people don't care about Amazon labour conditions doesn't tell us that Amazon is doing the 'right thing', it tells us that people don't care about worker rights. That's what laws and governments exist for. People also never cared that their palm oil consumption endangers biodiversity and destroys the rainforest, because they don't suffer from it.
      - NoOneNew 6y ago
        Justify the practice? I'm the one arguing that Amazon is too large and we need better labor laws to protect workers, but the public isn't helping the matter by crying, then buying stuff on Amazon. Yes laws exist for a reason, but I dont need a law to tell me stealing and murder is bad. While that's an extreme example, it's to prove that people need to own up to their own decision making if they want to complain. You shouldn't need your mommy around to tell you to do the right thing or who to associate with. Be an adult and be proactive.
- tsherr 6y ago
  To be fair, the reason we have governments is to make our lives better. Legislation to help citizens is the point of government.
- adamsea 6y ago
  I'm confused. Are you arguing government shouldn't take action, because the public can? Or the other way around? Honest question. Also (and forgive me if this is a a result of misunderstanding your comment) in a small-d democratic system the government is a representative of the public. IMHO the government is our "adult pants" because it is our system of managing law, albeit an imperfect one.
  - NoOneNew 6y ago
    I think the gov, at this point, should do a serious and thorough investigation on workers rights violations with proper/harsh punishments where appropriate along with investigating anti competitive practices. But I dont believe its genuine for someone to complain about what Amazon is doing, then fund the company to continue their shady practices. It's like someone in Greenpeace crying for more laws to protect animals while they club a seal to death for their fur. You dont "need" laws for you to do the moral and correct thing in your personal life. It's more meant to protect you from others doing bad onto you. Unless you're a whiny child with no sense of responsibility... anyways, stand up for what you believe. Dont wait around. Thats the adult pants comment. Sure, you now have to click a few extra times to buy the same item elsewhere... what a painful sacrifice... Go ahead and buy from Amazon but dont get on a high horse, saying workers have rights, but fund a company for violating those rights. By the way, when someone says to "put your adult pants on", that means you do things for yourself, by yourself, no matter how difficult or painful. Not have someone else do it for you.
    - adamsea 6y ago
      Thanks for the clarification. Yeah I agree about the government doing an investigation. In spirit I agree with you but think it's not as black-and-white as you described. For example: I forget to get a book as a birthday present. The party is in two days. If I decide to order the book on Amazon, because it's the only fast and reliable shipper of books whom I know will have the book I want, I don't see that the same as clubbing a baby seal, so to speak. The issue being of course, whether Amazon qualifies as a monoply in the "Ma Bell" sense or not, there's not an obvious peer competitor, so, human behavior being what it is, people default to Amazon because, well, people are people. We're all babies sometimes. That said I did just recently order a book from https://www.betterworldbooks.com/ https://www.betterworldbooks.com/ so there ya go. : )
drivingmenuts 6y ago
Show me something better that aligns with my needs and I’ll switch.
zxcvbn4038 6y ago
I actually wish Amazon had more power. They have done an amazing job of putting the customer first when everyone else was trying to figure out new ways to screw people over and tell them it was their fault. They opened a marketplace for small businesses that normally would not be able to obtain shelf space at a major store. They created an awesome computing platform and made it available to everyone who can’t afford to build their own. I think they have earned their position. My only wish is that they would pick up their boxes and reuse/recycle them when they drop off the new ones.
- pen2l 6y ago
  > My only wish is that they would pick up their boxes and reuse/recycle them when they drop off the new ones. At least they are recyclable and I hope everyone is recycling them!
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  > They have done an amazing job of putting the customer first when everyone else was trying to figure out new ways to screw people over and tell them it was their fault. They used to do an amazing job at putting customers first. Then once they got traction, they pivoted to putting themselves first by commingling inventory with random resellers who can insert counterfeit or bad product into their inventory. They even went so far as to remove the option to filter for products only shipped and sold by Amazon.com. They did this because retail margins suck and they would rather collect 15% for being a platform rather than a few percent accept and they get to shed all the inventory risk as a retailer. So now they’re just a more expensive Aliexpress, as far as I can tell.
  - zxcvbn4038 6y ago
    I'd argue that neither problem is unique to Amazon. E-Bay was notorious for being the dumping ground for burned out/damaged computer parts, though they did start weeding out people that do that because sold as-is or not, it caused a lot of problems and damaged E-bay's brand. Best Buy has been the target of return scams forever because they are easy marks. If you live in Texas then your probably familiar with Fry's Electronics - when I used to buy parts from them we started marking all of the stuff we returned so that we wouldn't buy it again. I've had > 99% good experience buying from Aliexpress but you have read carefully and make sure you know what your ordering. Only bad experience I had was ordering a dozen i2c multiplexers and receiving a child's leather minidress instead, seller would only speak to me in nonsense sentence fragments regardless if I contacted them in English or Mandarin, and it took three weeks to get a refund. But on the bright side the exact same nail files that CVS sells for $10 each I can get 5 for $1 if I'm willing to wait 2-3 weeks.
TYPE_FASTER 6y ago
What I would like is a product search responsive web page that would search all local stores, including big box, and Amazon. You could start with a simple Froogle-ish search, and add discovery features as time goes on. This would disrupt the current model, both online and offline.
- 0max 6y ago
  Sounds like what Alibaba already does in China, where they digitize local stores and their stock but make it available on their platform. Imagine Square, Shopify and Amazon all rolled into one to help digitize your brick and moartar.
  - TYPE_FASTER 6y ago
    Yeah, that would be great. I'd like to be able to support local businesses, and if not available locally then price compare Target/Walmart/Amazon.

38 points by pcl 6y ago

Okay, so I do believe in worker's rights and in general that Amazon is too large. Especially that city bidding mess where it was just a way to get free data from cities about their future plans. But I don't like the argument in the article. It lays the responsibility of government to fix something that the public can have a bigger influence on. It's something I do. Don't buy from Amazon. I don't approve of their warehouse policies. Thus, I choose not to buy from them. It's not like they are the only shop on the web. The convenience argument is rather petty too. At a certain point, you have to put adult pants on. You are just funding them in doing what you don't like if you wait for someone else to "fix" the problem.

bilal4hmed 6y ago
this, there are so many options to buy from that aren't Amazon. I've been in so many discussions with friends on this matter and when I ask them why they don't shop elsewhere, it always boils down to these two scenarios Amazon makes it so easy for me to buy, I don't have to think. Have you tried the others ?? No
- ytdytvhxgydvhh 6y ago
  I agree with you both in theory and I’ve limited my purchasing from Amazon for such reasons. But I’ve come across products where the company has a first-party website to promote their product, but no first-party way to actually purchase the product. They just have links to go buy at Amazon. For now these are rarities but I’d be concerned that it becomes more common without government intervention.
  - Theory5 6y ago
    Amazon makes money by being so damn easy to spend your money and get products. One click buying probably increased the average American's monthly spending a decent percentage alone. Making it just as easy for third party sellers is a no brainier, and will only increase their influence and grasp. Especially if they can cut small business overhead significantly. Today, why would anyone want the overhead of building and maintaining an ecommerce site when their business is too small to do it without lots of money and additional overhead.
- adamsea 6y ago
  Respectfully I don't think it's as easy as you think. Consider, for a non-tech person: 1. I have to be told or take the time to discover the non-Amazon option exists. And (though I haven't tested it) my guess is these days it takes a while to use Google (the default search tool for folks) to find an alternative. 2. I have to assess if I trust this new alternative. 3. I have to figure out how this new alternative works. For non-technical folks, depending on their background and how good or bad the UX for a site is, this could be a blocker. 4. I have to search on the new site for what I want. 5. I have to check how long the new site will take to deliver the item. 6. I have to enter payment information which again raises the question of trust. All of these small (or not so small) frictions add up, IMHO, and it's not anyone's fault. It's just human behavior. Amazon has a great customer experience when it comes to the items I listed. The problem as we know isn't that - it's how they stifle competition and help create the conditions in which they are the only company with this level of customer service. Oh yeah, and Amazon's abusive labor practices when it comes to the people it hires to work in it's warehouses.
rmcpherson 6y ago
Unionization, as argued for in the op-ed, is something that’s legal right now. We just need government to enforce the laws already in place. Laws paid for with the blood of the labor movement in the early 20th century. Unfortunately regulatory capture has eviscerated the agencies and government bodies tasked with upholding those laws.
- NoOneNew 6y ago
  Doesn't help when the general public bank rolls companies to fight laws and regulatory actions. That's my point. The money Amazon uses doesn't magically appear. These companies dont use spells to generate income, it comes from the people. I swear, it seems like folks dont know how business works these days. The people are voting with dollars saying Amazon is doing the right thing when they buy from Amazon. That's the reality. People generally dont want to see themselves as being accessories to this mess and just say, "the gov isn't doing enough to stop Amazon from abusing workers... I totally need to buy that new widget, good thing I have Prime shipping."
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    > The people are voting with dollars saying Amazon is doing the right thing when they buy from Amazon. That's the reality. And how is that justification? If people buy cheap stuff made from prison or child labour does that justify the practise? It just tells us that people by and large are indifferent to the conditions under which their goods are produced, it's not a justification for it. That people don't care about Amazon labour conditions doesn't tell us that Amazon is doing the 'right thing', it tells us that people don't care about worker rights. That's what laws and governments exist for. People also never cared that their palm oil consumption endangers biodiversity and destroys the rainforest, because they don't suffer from it.
    - NoOneNew 6y ago
      Justify the practice? I'm the one arguing that Amazon is too large and we need better labor laws to protect workers, but the public isn't helping the matter by crying, then buying stuff on Amazon. Yes laws exist for a reason, but I dont need a law to tell me stealing and murder is bad. While that's an extreme example, it's to prove that people need to own up to their own decision making if they want to complain. You shouldn't need your mommy around to tell you to do the right thing or who to associate with. Be an adult and be proactive.
tsherr 6y ago
To be fair, the reason we have governments is to make our lives better. Legislation to help citizens is the point of government.
adamsea 6y ago
I'm confused. Are you arguing government shouldn't take action, because the public can? Or the other way around? Honest question. Also (and forgive me if this is a a result of misunderstanding your comment) in a small-d democratic system the government is a representative of the public. IMHO the government is our "adult pants" because it is our system of managing law, albeit an imperfect one.
- NoOneNew 6y ago
  I think the gov, at this point, should do a serious and thorough investigation on workers rights violations with proper/harsh punishments where appropriate along with investigating anti competitive practices. But I dont believe its genuine for someone to complain about what Amazon is doing, then fund the company to continue their shady practices. It's like someone in Greenpeace crying for more laws to protect animals while they club a seal to death for their fur. You dont "need" laws for you to do the moral and correct thing in your personal life. It's more meant to protect you from others doing bad onto you. Unless you're a whiny child with no sense of responsibility... anyways, stand up for what you believe. Dont wait around. Thats the adult pants comment. Sure, you now have to click a few extra times to buy the same item elsewhere... what a painful sacrifice... Go ahead and buy from Amazon but dont get on a high horse, saying workers have rights, but fund a company for violating those rights. By the way, when someone says to "put your adult pants on", that means you do things for yourself, by yourself, no matter how difficult or painful. Not have someone else do it for you.
  - adamsea 6y ago
    Thanks for the clarification. Yeah I agree about the government doing an investigation. In spirit I agree with you but think it's not as black-and-white as you described. For example: I forget to get a book as a birthday present. The party is in two days. If I decide to order the book on Amazon, because it's the only fast and reliable shipper of books whom I know will have the book I want, I don't see that the same as clubbing a baby seal, so to speak. The issue being of course, whether Amazon qualifies as a monoply in the "Ma Bell" sense or not, there's not an obvious peer competitor, so, human behavior being what it is, people default to Amazon because, well, people are people. We're all babies sometimes. That said I did just recently order a book from https://www.betterworldbooks.com/ https://www.betterworldbooks.com/ so there ya go. : )

drivingmenuts 6y ago

Show me something better that aligns with my needs and I’ll switch.

zxcvbn4038 6y ago

I actually wish Amazon had more power. They have done an amazing job of putting the customer first when everyone else was trying to figure out new ways to screw people over and tell them it was their fault. They opened a marketplace for small businesses that normally would not be able to obtain shelf space at a major store. They created an awesome computing platform and made it available to everyone who can’t afford to build their own. I think they have earned their position. My only wish is that they would pick up their boxes and reuse/recycle them when they drop off the new ones.

pen2l 6y ago
> My only wish is that they would pick up their boxes and reuse/recycle them when they drop off the new ones. At least they are recyclable and I hope everyone is recycling them!
lotsofpulp 6y ago
> They have done an amazing job of putting the customer first when everyone else was trying to figure out new ways to screw people over and tell them it was their fault. They used to do an amazing job at putting customers first. Then once they got traction, they pivoted to putting themselves first by commingling inventory with random resellers who can insert counterfeit or bad product into their inventory. They even went so far as to remove the option to filter for products only shipped and sold by Amazon.com. They did this because retail margins suck and they would rather collect 15% for being a platform rather than a few percent accept and they get to shed all the inventory risk as a retailer. So now they’re just a more expensive Aliexpress, as far as I can tell.
- zxcvbn4038 6y ago
  I'd argue that neither problem is unique to Amazon. E-Bay was notorious for being the dumping ground for burned out/damaged computer parts, though they did start weeding out people that do that because sold as-is or not, it caused a lot of problems and damaged E-bay's brand. Best Buy has been the target of return scams forever because they are easy marks. If you live in Texas then your probably familiar with Fry's Electronics - when I used to buy parts from them we started marking all of the stuff we returned so that we wouldn't buy it again. I've had > 99% good experience buying from Aliexpress but you have read carefully and make sure you know what your ordering. Only bad experience I had was ordering a dozen i2c multiplexers and receiving a child's leather minidress instead, seller would only speak to me in nonsense sentence fragments regardless if I contacted them in English or Mandarin, and it took three weeks to get a refund. But on the bright side the exact same nail files that CVS sells for $10 each I can get 5 for $1 if I'm willing to wait 2-3 weeks.

TYPE_FASTER 6y ago

What I would like is a product search responsive web page that would search all local stores, including big box, and Amazon. You could start with a simple Froogle-ish search, and add discovery features as time goes on. This would disrupt the current model, both online and offline.

0max 6y ago
Sounds like what Alibaba already does in China, where they digitize local stores and their stock but make it available on their platform. Imagine Square, Shopify and Amazon all rolled into one to help digitize your brick and moartar.
- TYPE_FASTER 6y ago
  Yeah, that would be great. I'd like to be able to support local businesses, and if not available locally then price compare Target/Walmart/Amazon.