4 ms·

This is something I enjoy about our jobs up in Scandinavia - the salaries are very compressed around the mean. Engineers, Lawyers, and other similar profession

This is something I enjoy about our jobs up in Scandinavia - the salaries are very compressed around the mean. Engineers, Lawyers, and other similar professions tend to earn 2x-3x of what the absolute minimum wage jobs earn. That's quite the difference compared to other countries, where Engineers can earn 5x-20x. People here are still motivated to seek higher education and better paid jobs, even though they could live normal lives off those lowest paid jobs that don't require any education.

Kiro 6y ago
I agree but considering the minimum wage is 0 I don't understand how you came up with the 2x-3x number.
- djrobstep 6y ago
  Nordic countries have minimum wages defined by collective bargaining agreements rather than the law - because unionization is so strong and the agreed minimums are relatively good, they don't really need national legal ones.
  - Kiro 6y ago
    Yes, but it's still optional. Only 39% of small companies have signed a collective agreement in Sweden. Companies refusing unionization and paying way below the union rates is a real problem: https://www.breakit.se/artikel/7599/i-spent-two-weeks-delivering-for-uber-eats-and-made-4-4-per-hour https://www.breakit.se/artikel/7599/i-spent-two-weeks-delive... Even most people in Sweden think there is a legal minimum wage and are surprised to hear it's 0 and that you can legally pay someone 0.01 an hour.
- TrackerFF 6y ago
  Yes, we - at least in Norway - don't have any official minimum wage, but a good rule of thumb is that the majority of unskilles non-industrial jobs start around 150 NOK / hr. +/- 15 NOK. Or annually around 275k-345k NOK In USD, that around $16.5 +/- $1.5. $30k - $39k year. The vast majority of professional jobs which require a BS or MS start between 450k-600k / $50k-$67k, and will by end of career be around 600k - 1MM / $50k - $110k. But keep in mind, there are several factors at play: - private pays more that public jobs - industry salaries differs wildly - location plays a big role - lots of outlier jobs pay much more than the above - The numbers above are based on current USD/NOK rates, which is very weak for us Norwegians. It's right now around 9, but has been down around 5 during the good years. So one needs to look at salaries as a relative thing. Edit: But we DO have union wages, which effectively work as minimum wages for many professions. But alas, there are lots of jobs with no unions.
djrobstep 6y ago
Other than the obvious equality benefits, even wages also have the advantage that people are much more likely to pick careers out of intrinsic interest rather than socio-economic status. How many unhappy people do you know do end up stuck doing work they hate because of money? There are many, and uneven compensation is a prime cause of their misery.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  I loved doing background investigations and PI work. It could be exciting, ever changing, and often utterly fascinating. I loved the travel and, honestly, the drama. But the hours sucked and the pay was weak. IT/Network Engineering pays me literally 4x what BI/PI did. There may be a happy medium there in cyber forensics or incident mgmt (or other security roles). But if the pay was closer... I'd consider going back, for sure.
corpMaverick 6y ago
As fortunate as I am, being a software engineer in the US. I rather live in place with a good safety net. I feel we all are one sickness away from being broke. In any case, you can't really enjoy life when everybody else living day by day.
- refurb 6y ago
  Have you applied for jobs in those countries? Looked into immigrating?
  - corpMaverick 6y ago
    I immigrated to the US. But when I came here I didn't considered other aspects like having a good social net and a society that cares more about the community. Now it may be too late for me. But I worry about my kids.
908B64B197 6y ago
I wonder what's the effect on emigration/immigration. It sounds like the gap between Scandinavia and other part of the world would make it tempting for high performers to leave.
- distances 6y ago
  There's relatively little emigration from Northern Europe. Some, but not that much. You obviously can be a high performer with good life prospects there. You won't accumulate as much wealth as somewhere else, but the culture where you grew up also gives much less value to financial status. Good life, quite enough money, and good standing in the society means little reason to emigrate.

Kiro 6y ago

I agree but considering the minimum wage is 0 I don't understand how you came up with the 2x-3x number.

djrobstep 6y ago
Nordic countries have minimum wages defined by collective bargaining agreements rather than the law - because unionization is so strong and the agreed minimums are relatively good, they don't really need national legal ones.
- Kiro 6y ago
  Yes, but it's still optional. Only 39% of small companies have signed a collective agreement in Sweden. Companies refusing unionization and paying way below the union rates is a real problem: https://www.breakit.se/artikel/7599/i-spent-two-weeks-delivering-for-uber-eats-and-made-4-4-per-hour https://www.breakit.se/artikel/7599/i-spent-two-weeks-delive... Even most people in Sweden think there is a legal minimum wage and are surprised to hear it's 0 and that you can legally pay someone 0.01 an hour.
TrackerFF 6y ago
Yes, we - at least in Norway - don't have any official minimum wage, but a good rule of thumb is that the majority of unskilles non-industrial jobs start around 150 NOK / hr. +/- 15 NOK. Or annually around 275k-345k NOK In USD, that around $16.5 +/- $1.5. $30k - $39k year. The vast majority of professional jobs which require a BS or MS start between 450k-600k / $50k-$67k, and will by end of career be around 600k - 1MM / $50k - $110k. But keep in mind, there are several factors at play: - private pays more that public jobs - industry salaries differs wildly - location plays a big role - lots of outlier jobs pay much more than the above - The numbers above are based on current USD/NOK rates, which is very weak for us Norwegians. It's right now around 9, but has been down around 5 during the good years. So one needs to look at salaries as a relative thing. Edit: But we DO have union wages, which effectively work as minimum wages for many professions. But alas, there are lots of jobs with no unions.

djrobstep 6y ago

Other than the obvious equality benefits, even wages also have the advantage that people are much more likely to pick careers out of intrinsic interest rather than socio-economic status. How many unhappy people do you know do end up stuck doing work they hate because of money? There are many, and uneven compensation is a prime cause of their misery.

blaser-waffle 6y ago
I loved doing background investigations and PI work. It could be exciting, ever changing, and often utterly fascinating. I loved the travel and, honestly, the drama. But the hours sucked and the pay was weak. IT/Network Engineering pays me literally 4x what BI/PI did. There may be a happy medium there in cyber forensics or incident mgmt (or other security roles). But if the pay was closer... I'd consider going back, for sure.

corpMaverick 6y ago

As fortunate as I am, being a software engineer in the US. I rather live in place with a good safety net. I feel we all are one sickness away from being broke. In any case, you can't really enjoy life when everybody else living day by day.

refurb 6y ago
Have you applied for jobs in those countries? Looked into immigrating?
- corpMaverick 6y ago
  I immigrated to the US. But when I came here I didn't considered other aspects like having a good social net and a society that cares more about the community. Now it may be too late for me. But I worry about my kids.

908B64B197 6y ago

I wonder what's the effect on emigration/immigration. It sounds like the gap between Scandinavia and other part of the world would make it tempting for high performers to leave.

distances 6y ago
There's relatively little emigration from Northern Europe. Some, but not that much. You obviously can be a high performer with good life prospects there. You won't accumulate as much wealth as somewhere else, but the culture where you grew up also gives much less value to financial status. Good life, quite enough money, and good standing in the society means little reason to emigrate.