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>And since the natural state of humanity is poverty (after all we all started as hunter-gatherers), breaking out of it on your own is extraordinary. The natura

by La1n 6y ago

>And since the natural state of humanity is poverty (after all we all started as hunter-gatherers), breaking out of it on your own is extraordinary. The natural state was sharing resources and taking care of a small group of people. Not working for a boss.

oblio 6y ago
What does that have to do with anything I'm saying?
- La1n 6y ago
  I don't agree humanities natural state was poverty. Yes, they were poor compared to now, but resources were shared and no one was "breaking out on their own". If you had a good hunt this was shared with the community, unlike the world we live in now were wealth is hoarded by a small few, so your comparison makes little sense.
  - oblio 6y ago
    Ah, the noble savage myth. Go read up just how friendly relations were between those noble savages were and how high the incidence of violence was. If you think we're more violent now, in the age of plenty...
    - La1n 6y ago
      >If you think we're more violent now, Don't strawman me, I didn't say that, or anything about violence. All I was talking about was distribution of income.
      - oblio 6y ago
        Ok, let me rephrase this, because we now have inequality and some people still live like back in the Stone Age, things are worse now? Keep in mind all people back in the Stone Age lived... like people in the Stone Age :-)
blaser-waffle 6y ago
According to Karl Marx, who had a reason to believe that; it backed up his ideology. Hobbes thought that man in the state of nature had a life that was "continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". Watching nature documentaries about the lives of lions (and other critters) have me leaning towards the latter.
- ipnon 6y ago
  Did you know that Marx invented the concept of ideology?[1] Do you think he was just being ironic? "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones."[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_German_Ideology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_German_Ideology [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns

by La1n 6y ago

oblio 6y ago

What does that have to do with anything I'm saying?

La1n 6y ago
I don't agree humanities natural state was poverty. Yes, they were poor compared to now, but resources were shared and no one was "breaking out on their own". If you had a good hunt this was shared with the community, unlike the world we live in now were wealth is hoarded by a small few, so your comparison makes little sense.
- oblio 6y ago
  Ah, the noble savage myth. Go read up just how friendly relations were between those noble savages were and how high the incidence of violence was. If you think we're more violent now, in the age of plenty...
  - La1n 6y ago
    >If you think we're more violent now, Don't strawman me, I didn't say that, or anything about violence. All I was talking about was distribution of income.
    - oblio 6y ago
      Ok, let me rephrase this, because we now have inequality and some people still live like back in the Stone Age, things are worse now? Keep in mind all people back in the Stone Age lived... like people in the Stone Age :-)

blaser-waffle 6y ago

According to Karl Marx, who had a reason to believe that; it backed up his ideology. Hobbes thought that man in the state of nature had a life that was "continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". Watching nature documentaries about the lives of lions (and other critters) have me leaning towards the latter.

ipnon 6y ago
Did you know that Marx invented the concept of ideology?[1] Do you think he was just being ironic? "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones."[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_German_Ideology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_German_Ideology [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns