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"If this body is concerned with what we are doing with the laws, it should change those laws based on the best interests of this country and its people;" "howe

"If this body is concerned with what we are doing with the laws, it should change those laws based on the best interests of this country and its people;" "however, this body should also note that Amazon will seek to exert control over the legislative process to ensure that Amazon's best interests are represented to the maximum extent that our influence and lobbying budget will allow,^1 even if those interests conflict with the best interests of this country and its people." 1. We spent $16,790,000 in 2019. https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/summary?cycle=2019&id=D000023883 https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/summary... I own the Washington Post. I am considered by Forbes, among others, to be the world's wealthiest billionaire. I am also a registered voter in this country.

ac29 6y ago
That's a reasonably fair criticism, but Congress has the power to outlaw such lobbying.
- AlchemistCamp 6y ago
  It's principal-agent problems all the way down.
- otterley 6y ago
  Congress has some power to outlaw corruption (or the perception thereof), but not lobbying per se. Restrictions on donations to political campaigns have been upheld in the past, but those tend to be direct money donations to candidates. Handing over money directly to a candidate is one thing, but the Courts have been a little more hesitant to uphold restrictions on lobbying or political speech -- and the spending of money to do it -- if it's being spent by or given to a third party not directly connected to the Government. The hesitancy is most recently exemplified in the Citizen's United case that is of significant controversy.
  - supernova87a 6y ago
    Sometimes I think that Congress had better think ahead to save its own skin, propose amendments to the Constitution about limits on corporations, before they lose all power to them and can no longer escape their grasp.
nostromo 6y ago
Petitioning the Government (aka lobbying) is a civil right in the US, guaranteed by the first amendment to the constitution.
- willis936 6y ago
  The constitution applies to citizens, not organizations. Anti-trust laws exist to protect citizens from organizations that try to break these rules. Amazon is teeing up.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > The constitution applies to citizens No, the Constitution applies to government. But it generally protects people, (not just citizens) which in law included juridical as well as natural persons long before the Constitution.
    - supernova87a 6y ago
      What happens when corporations have more practical daily influence over people's lives than the government? This is a problem. Is it our Achilles heel?
      - missedthecue 6y ago
        I see that as a good thing. Macy's can't force me to do anything. The federal government can. I'd prefer Macy's to have more influence in my day to day life than the business end of a gun.
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        “Corporations” and “business end of a gun” are not mutually exclusive mechanisms of power.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > What happens when corporations have more practical daily influence over people's lives than the government? Impossible, because while corporations are a vehicle through which private individuals act, they are a creation and extension of government power. While the power exerted through corporations is not proximately controlled by people who are particularly accountable to the public for their actions, it is nevertheless government power, and thus the power exerted by corporations can never be greater than that exerted by government, because the former is a subset of the latter.
supernova87a 6y ago
What does it matter that Amazon in particular is the one buying out these politicians? Someone would do it. They're a big enough company that the left hand probably doesn't know what the right hand is doing anyway. And the most evil company in the world telling you to regulate it ought to give you some pause that maybe you really should think about doing that, don't you think?
- ericd 6y ago
  How do you figure that Amazon is the most evil company in the world? Like, more than companies whose main products literally kill the users (Altria/Phillip Morris)? The companies that develop ICBMs? Or energy companies that create false narratives to confuse the conversation around climate change? Which frankly has a non-zero chance of being the cause of a new dark age. Am I misunderstanding what you’re saying?
  - supernova87a 6y ago
    I'm just using that word as hyperbole. If the person above thinks that Amazon is so bad for lobbying congresspeople, wouldn't Amazon itself saying it needs to be regulated deserve some serious consideration?
    - ericd 6y ago
      Gotcha, mea culpa. Sometimes it seems like the internet really does think that unironically. Yeah, I think it deserves some thought.
  - spectramax 6y ago
    I would argue that ICBMs are a peaceful weapon. Look up nuclear deterrence.
LatteLazy 6y ago
It's almost as if Congress should change some laws about campaign spending and individuals owning loss making "news" organisations. But they don't...

ac29 6y ago

That's a reasonably fair criticism, but Congress has the power to outlaw such lobbying.

AlchemistCamp 6y ago
It's principal-agent problems all the way down.
otterley 6y ago
Congress has some power to outlaw corruption (or the perception thereof), but not lobbying per se. Restrictions on donations to political campaigns have been upheld in the past, but those tend to be direct money donations to candidates. Handing over money directly to a candidate is one thing, but the Courts have been a little more hesitant to uphold restrictions on lobbying or political speech -- and the spending of money to do it -- if it's being spent by or given to a third party not directly connected to the Government. The hesitancy is most recently exemplified in the Citizen's United case that is of significant controversy.
- supernova87a 6y ago
  Sometimes I think that Congress had better think ahead to save its own skin, propose amendments to the Constitution about limits on corporations, before they lose all power to them and can no longer escape their grasp.

nostromo 6y ago

Petitioning the Government (aka lobbying) is a civil right in the US, guaranteed by the first amendment to the constitution.

willis936 6y ago
The constitution applies to citizens, not organizations. Anti-trust laws exist to protect citizens from organizations that try to break these rules. Amazon is teeing up.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > The constitution applies to citizens No, the Constitution applies to government. But it generally protects people, (not just citizens) which in law included juridical as well as natural persons long before the Constitution.
  - supernova87a 6y ago
    What happens when corporations have more practical daily influence over people's lives than the government? This is a problem. Is it our Achilles heel?
    - missedthecue 6y ago
      I see that as a good thing. Macy's can't force me to do anything. The federal government can. I'd prefer Macy's to have more influence in my day to day life than the business end of a gun.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        “Corporations” and “business end of a gun” are not mutually exclusive mechanisms of power.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > What happens when corporations have more practical daily influence over people's lives than the government? Impossible, because while corporations are a vehicle through which private individuals act, they are a creation and extension of government power. While the power exerted through corporations is not proximately controlled by people who are particularly accountable to the public for their actions, it is nevertheless government power, and thus the power exerted by corporations can never be greater than that exerted by government, because the former is a subset of the latter.

supernova87a 6y ago

What does it matter that Amazon in particular is the one buying out these politicians? Someone would do it. They're a big enough company that the left hand probably doesn't know what the right hand is doing anyway. And the most evil company in the world telling you to regulate it ought to give you some pause that maybe you really should think about doing that, don't you think?

ericd 6y ago
How do you figure that Amazon is the most evil company in the world? Like, more than companies whose main products literally kill the users (Altria/Phillip Morris)? The companies that develop ICBMs? Or energy companies that create false narratives to confuse the conversation around climate change? Which frankly has a non-zero chance of being the cause of a new dark age. Am I misunderstanding what you’re saying?
- supernova87a 6y ago
  I'm just using that word as hyperbole. If the person above thinks that Amazon is so bad for lobbying congresspeople, wouldn't Amazon itself saying it needs to be regulated deserve some serious consideration?
  - ericd 6y ago
    Gotcha, mea culpa. Sometimes it seems like the internet really does think that unironically. Yeah, I think it deserves some thought.
- spectramax 6y ago
  I would argue that ICBMs are a peaceful weapon. Look up nuclear deterrence.

LatteLazy 6y ago

It's almost as if Congress should change some laws about campaign spending and individuals owning loss making "news" organisations. But they don't...