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I'm sure people believe they confirm 'profound changes in their own mental state' from energy crystals too. We can delude ourselves into believing anything. Th

I'm sure people believe they confirm 'profound changes in their own mental state' from energy crystals too. We can delude ourselves into believing anything. That's why we need to test things empirically in order to find out the truth.

brigandish 6y ago
> I'm sure people believe they confirm 'profound changes in their own mental state' from energy crystals too. Not sure about you, but if someone tells me "I've been exercising lately and mentally I feel much better" I don't say "but does homeopathy really work" and wink at them.
- fossuser 6y ago
  There's a lot of evidence that exercising is healthy and helps people improve their mental state so that analogy doesn't work. The point is if someone says they're getting a benefit from something that doesn't have a ton of evidence around it - my first instinct would be to be skeptical but curious. When someone takes that skepticism and implies that the "far bigger and more pressing problem" is that I can't determine the obvious benefits it makes me more skeptical, not less. How skeptical I am comes from how far it is from my priors. Breathing exercises being helpful seems likely, choosing energetic or restful based on which nostril you're breathing out of sounds like bullshit so I'm more skeptical by default. If someone tells me they're breathing out of their right nostril to become more energized - I'd probably tell them that sounds made up.
  - nonbirithm 6y ago
    It's weird though, because exercising physically can increase stress in the short term and can greatly elevate heart rate. Exercising is really unpleasant to me and I would really rather not do so. The only reason I choose to exercise anyway is because of the people online and the scientific evidence saying that exercise is better for you in the long term. I certainly don't feel like it in the moment, and in fact sometimes worry if my heart is going to give out as I exercise. But if I am going to believe that exercise is beneficial overall, but that you can't experience the benefits it brings until it's too late to change things, I don't really know what else to do except listen to them and keep exercising, while getting over the unpleasantness and complete draining of energy and motivation to do things I'd rather do that it causes. Maybe that's what some things in life come down to. It either comes down to eating diets like ones with plants prioritized and getting over the fact that they don't taste as pleasant as foods with refined sugars, or accepting the impact on your health by choosing the latter. Maybe some people just make their own peace with the taste of such foods, somehow.
    - lvturner 6y ago
      I don't have a tactful way to say this - but perhaps you are exercising too hard? It might be wiser to take a progressive approach - i.e. start with a five minute walk, the next day/week/month increase it to a ten minute walk or increase the pace.
    - onemoresoop 6y ago
      If I were you I’d go to a clinic to check my heart health and ask a doctor whether or how much exercising is good for you.
  - brigandish 6y ago
    > There's a lot of evidence that exercising is healthy and helps people improve their mental state so that analogy doesn't work. There's actually a lot of research out there. Did you try to search for any? It's not scepticism to compare something you cannot believe because you haven't bothered to investigate, with well known falsities such as crystal healing. Not only does the research support the existence of a nasal cycle where one nostril is dominant at different times, it also supports a different pathway to the brain and a different neurological response. On top of that, psychological research shows links between breathing patterns and emotional response, in both directions, and then there's the wealth of meditative research. This stuff isn't controversial. From [Taste and Smell]: > The FN model may also explain the observation by Sobel et al. [36] that, when performing an odor threshold test, humans sniff longer when using the nostril with the lower flow rate. (Subjects usually have different flow rates in their two nostrils because of cyclic changes in the size of their nasal cavities.) From [Nature]: > The flow of air is greater into one nostril than into the other because there is a slight turbinate swelling in one. The nostril that takes in more air switches from the left to the right one and back again every few hours From [Stanford News]: > Michael Leon, a professor of neurobiology and behavior at the University of California at Irvine said… [the] data suggest, that the olfactory system maximizes the ability of its distributed receptor neurons to encode differentially absorbing odors. From [Measuring and Characterizing the Human Nasal Cycle]: > Nasal airflow is greater in one nostril than in the other because of transient asymmetric nasal passage obstruction by erectile tissue. The extent of obstruction alternates across nostrils with periodicity referred to as the nasal cycle. The nasal cycle is related to autonomic arousal and is indicative of asymmetry in brain function. Moreover, alterations in nasal cycle periodicity have been linked to various diseases. From [Hemispheric lateralization in the processing of odor pleasantness versus odor names]: > These findings are consistent with previously demonstrated neural laterality in the processing of olfaction, emotion and language, and suggest that a local and functional convergence may exist between olfaction and emotional processing. From [Respiratory feedback in the generation of emotion]: > This article reports two studies investigating the relationship between emotional feelings and respiration. In the first study, participants were asked to produce an emotion of either joy, anger, fear or sadness and to describe the breathing pattern that fit best with the generated emotion. Results revealed that breathing patterns reported during voluntary production of emotion were (a) comparable to those objectively recorded in psychophysiological experiments on emotion arousal, (b) consistently similar across individuals, and (c) clearly differentiated among joy, anger, fear, and sadness. A second study used breathing instructions based on Study 1’s results to investigate the impact of the manipulation of respiration on emotional feeling state. A cover story was used so that participants could not guess the actual purpose of the study. This manipulation produced significant emotional feeling states that were differentiated according to the type of breathing pattern. The implications of these findings for emotion theories based on peripheral feedback and for emotion regulation are discussed. I could go on. As to meditative practices, there's been extensive research for nigh on 50 years now, and for the past 20 (at least, as far as I'm aware) they've been using fMRI scanners to provide objective results[Oser] on the link between meditation as a practice and mental state. You just have to look. [Taste and Smell] https://books.google.com/books?id=fuxS-p6bpuwC&pg=PA12 https://books.google.com/books?id=fuxS-p6bpuwC&pg=PA12 [Nature] https://www.nature.com/articles/46944 https://www.nature.com/articles/46944 [Measuring and Characterizing the Human Nasal Cycle] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5053491/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5053491/ [Stanford News] https://news.stanford.edu/news/1999/november10/smell-1110.html https://news.stanford.edu/news/1999/november10/smell-1110.ht... [Hemispheric lateralization in the processing of odor pleasantness versus odor names] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12712833_Hemispheric_lateralization_in_the_processing_of_odor_pleasantness_versus_odor_names https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12712833_Hemispheri... [Respiratory feedback in the generation of emotion] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/02699930143000392 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/0269993014300039... [Oser] https://www.lionsroar.com/the-lama-in-the-lab/ https://www.lionsroar.com/the-lama-in-the-lab/ I include this as it's a personal favourite of mine and covered more extensively in Daniel Golman's book, Destructive Emotions.

brigandish 6y ago

> I'm sure people believe they confirm 'profound changes in their own mental state' from energy crystals too. Not sure about you, but if someone tells me "I've been exercising lately and mentally I feel much better" I don't say "but does homeopathy really work" and wink at them.

fossuser 6y ago
There's a lot of evidence that exercising is healthy and helps people improve their mental state so that analogy doesn't work. The point is if someone says they're getting a benefit from something that doesn't have a ton of evidence around it - my first instinct would be to be skeptical but curious. When someone takes that skepticism and implies that the "far bigger and more pressing problem" is that I can't determine the obvious benefits it makes me more skeptical, not less. How skeptical I am comes from how far it is from my priors. Breathing exercises being helpful seems likely, choosing energetic or restful based on which nostril you're breathing out of sounds like bullshit so I'm more skeptical by default. If someone tells me they're breathing out of their right nostril to become more energized - I'd probably tell them that sounds made up.
- nonbirithm 6y ago
  It's weird though, because exercising physically can increase stress in the short term and can greatly elevate heart rate. Exercising is really unpleasant to me and I would really rather not do so. The only reason I choose to exercise anyway is because of the people online and the scientific evidence saying that exercise is better for you in the long term. I certainly don't feel like it in the moment, and in fact sometimes worry if my heart is going to give out as I exercise. But if I am going to believe that exercise is beneficial overall, but that you can't experience the benefits it brings until it's too late to change things, I don't really know what else to do except listen to them and keep exercising, while getting over the unpleasantness and complete draining of energy and motivation to do things I'd rather do that it causes. Maybe that's what some things in life come down to. It either comes down to eating diets like ones with plants prioritized and getting over the fact that they don't taste as pleasant as foods with refined sugars, or accepting the impact on your health by choosing the latter. Maybe some people just make their own peace with the taste of such foods, somehow.
  - lvturner 6y ago
    I don't have a tactful way to say this - but perhaps you are exercising too hard? It might be wiser to take a progressive approach - i.e. start with a five minute walk, the next day/week/month increase it to a ten minute walk or increase the pace.
  - onemoresoop 6y ago
    If I were you I’d go to a clinic to check my heart health and ask a doctor whether or how much exercising is good for you.
- brigandish 6y ago
  > There's a lot of evidence that exercising is healthy and helps people improve their mental state so that analogy doesn't work. There's actually a lot of research out there. Did you try to search for any? It's not scepticism to compare something you cannot believe because you haven't bothered to investigate, with well known falsities such as crystal healing. Not only does the research support the existence of a nasal cycle where one nostril is dominant at different times, it also supports a different pathway to the brain and a different neurological response. On top of that, psychological research shows links between breathing patterns and emotional response, in both directions, and then there's the wealth of meditative research. This stuff isn't controversial. From [Taste and Smell]: > The FN model may also explain the observation by Sobel et al. [36] that, when performing an odor threshold test, humans sniff longer when using the nostril with the lower flow rate. (Subjects usually have different flow rates in their two nostrils because of cyclic changes in the size of their nasal cavities.) From [Nature]: > The flow of air is greater into one nostril than into the other because there is a slight turbinate swelling in one. The nostril that takes in more air switches from the left to the right one and back again every few hours From [Stanford News]: > Michael Leon, a professor of neurobiology and behavior at the University of California at Irvine said… [the] data suggest, that the olfactory system maximizes the ability of its distributed receptor neurons to encode differentially absorbing odors. From [Measuring and Characterizing the Human Nasal Cycle]: > Nasal airflow is greater in one nostril than in the other because of transient asymmetric nasal passage obstruction by erectile tissue. The extent of obstruction alternates across nostrils with periodicity referred to as the nasal cycle. The nasal cycle is related to autonomic arousal and is indicative of asymmetry in brain function. Moreover, alterations in nasal cycle periodicity have been linked to various diseases. From [Hemispheric lateralization in the processing of odor pleasantness versus odor names]: > These findings are consistent with previously demonstrated neural laterality in the processing of olfaction, emotion and language, and suggest that a local and functional convergence may exist between olfaction and emotional processing. From [Respiratory feedback in the generation of emotion]: > This article reports two studies investigating the relationship between emotional feelings and respiration. In the first study, participants were asked to produce an emotion of either joy, anger, fear or sadness and to describe the breathing pattern that fit best with the generated emotion. Results revealed that breathing patterns reported during voluntary production of emotion were (a) comparable to those objectively recorded in psychophysiological experiments on emotion arousal, (b) consistently similar across individuals, and (c) clearly differentiated among joy, anger, fear, and sadness. A second study used breathing instructions based on Study 1’s results to investigate the impact of the manipulation of respiration on emotional feeling state. A cover story was used so that participants could not guess the actual purpose of the study. This manipulation produced significant emotional feeling states that were differentiated according to the type of breathing pattern. The implications of these findings for emotion theories based on peripheral feedback and for emotion regulation are discussed. I could go on. As to meditative practices, there's been extensive research for nigh on 50 years now, and for the past 20 (at least, as far as I'm aware) they've been using fMRI scanners to provide objective results[Oser] on the link between meditation as a practice and mental state. You just have to look. [Taste and Smell] https://books.google.com/books?id=fuxS-p6bpuwC&pg=PA12 https://books.google.com/books?id=fuxS-p6bpuwC&pg=PA12 [Nature] https://www.nature.com/articles/46944 https://www.nature.com/articles/46944 [Measuring and Characterizing the Human Nasal Cycle] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5053491/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5053491/ [Stanford News] https://news.stanford.edu/news/1999/november10/smell-1110.html https://news.stanford.edu/news/1999/november10/smell-1110.ht... [Hemispheric lateralization in the processing of odor pleasantness versus odor names] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12712833_Hemispheric_lateralization_in_the_processing_of_odor_pleasantness_versus_odor_names https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12712833_Hemispheri... [Respiratory feedback in the generation of emotion] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/02699930143000392 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/0269993014300039... [Oser] https://www.lionsroar.com/the-lama-in-the-lab/ https://www.lionsroar.com/the-lama-in-the-lab/ I include this as it's a personal favourite of mine and covered more extensively in Daniel Golman's book, Destructive Emotions.