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The thing to remember is that in Australia the Federal Government provides interest free loans [1] to students to fund their studies. The government also subsi
by Khaine 6y ago
The thing to remember is that in Australia the Federal Government provides interest free loans [1] to students to fund their studies. The government also subsidises university studies. In the past the government has reduced the subsidy for law and engineering on the basis that people who did these courses would earn more, and therefore should pay more. Now they have flipped that to drive students into in demand careers, as there is a shortage. This doesn't mean that humanities aren't important, but that since the government subsidies university courses, they are going to invest in whats most important for the country.
These loans are then automatically taken out of your salary based on earning a certain amount.
[1] https://www.studyassist.gov.au/help-loans/fee-help https://www.studyassist.gov.au/help-loans/fee-help
- triceratops 6y ago> Now they have flipped that to drive students into in demand careers, as there is a shortage. If those careers were in-demand, shouldn't the wages on offer be enough to drive students into those careers?
- pb7 6y agoYou’re giving 18 year olds too much credit. Ask the average college student what job they’re planning on getting with their degree and how much it pays and they won’t be able to tell you.
- dasudasu 6y agoAs an easy counter-example, there was a decent drop in people getting CS degrees following the dot-com bubble implosion and pervasive rumors of offshoring thereafter. Correspondingly, there was an uptick while the bubble was forming.
- triceratops 6y agoCollege students may not know precise numbers. But they're sharp enough to work out "barista with an art degree" makes less than "banker with a finance degree". And if they don't already know "art degree = low-paying career" we're failing them before they ever reach college.
- true_religion 6y agoA lot of people think art degrees will pay well because they see the explosion of interest in anime, web illustrations, comics, and graphic novels. They don’t see the supply side though, so they assume good demand means a good career path.
- tzs 6y agoNot necessarily. There are at least two reasons more money might not be sufficient for many students. First, just because a career is high demand, high pay now doesn't mean it still will be in a few years. Enough people might go into it chasing the money to turn the shortage into a surplus. Second, it can be hard to change careers later, especially careers that require a degree. Many will prefer to pick a career they are confident they will be happy with for the rest of the working life, even if that won't make as much money.
- triceratops 6y agoI think you're making my points for me. > First, just because a career is high demand, high pay now doesn't mean it still will be in a few years. Enough people might go into it chasing the money to turn the shortage into a surplus. Sounds like a subsidy for the industries that hire those workers. High wages are good for workers. Why champion policies that would cost taxpayer money while lowering wages? > Many will prefer to pick a career they are confident they will be happy with for the rest of the working life, even if that won't make as much money. Correct. Which is why a degree of less certain market value should cost less - both to the payer, but also for the educating institution. I don't understand why art degrees should cost anywhere in the same ballpark as engineering degrees when you consider the cost differences in capital and labor inputs (labs and equipment vs art studios and supplies, engineers vs artists) and their eventual respective market values. Liberal and fine arts people (should) cost less to educate and they make less money. Ergo they should have to pay less to be educated.
- redis_mlc 6y agoIn countries like Australia and Canada, employers won't raise salaries "on principal."
- quickthrower2 6y agoIncrease what you'll pay and voila - no shortage. What if everyone did that? Then those ex-IT tradies will come back out from the literal woodwork. Diaspora in Singapore, US, etc. might come back home and live the good life, etc. The other thing - make it easier and cheaper to get a visa. And in the covid world, just hire FT remote forever people.
- gonzo41 6y agoIt should also be noted that the same conservative Australian government hasn't done much to help along/build the STEM industries in the country. There's a lot of unemployment in graduate Comp Sci and IT degrees and Engineering is a real risk. So whilst the loans help get educated, Australia is a difficult place for STEM graduates to get a foot in the door to full time work.
- _AzMoo 6y agoAs a person who hires software engineers in Australia, it's hard for me to understand this perspective. The last few times I've tried to hire a junior I've received very little interest from new Australian graduates. The vast majority of applications come from Indian migrants, not local graduates.
- gonzo41 6y agoOut of curiosity what industry do you work/program in?
- _AzMoo 6y agoRetail.
- Khaine 6y agoThat is my perspective as well, recruiting in a field that is tech adjacent. Practically everyone who applied for vacant roles were either Indian migrants, or people here on visas.
- h0l0cube 6y agoFor what compensation?
- Khaine 6y agoI'm speaking on my own behalf, and not representing my employer, so I don't want to provide too much information. As I understand it, based on what HR tell me, for the industry we are in we offer at the low to mid end of market rates on salary, and make it up in performance pay (bonus).