4 ms·

I'm always fascinated by the way these techno-anarchists are so drawn to symbols of the State, and State power. Cold War, nuclear artifacts seem a perennial fav

by blake1 6y ago

I'm always fascinated by the way these techno-anarchists are so drawn to symbols of the State, and State power. Cold War, nuclear artifacts seem a perennial favorite. And it's funny how every little collective seems to end up being a mini-State, with a little dictator on top. I don't have an empirical study to back this up, and am drawing this from this story, the story of Ross Ulbricht, and a little from my own personal experience.

StavrosK 6y ago
They're probably drawn to the symbols of a fallen state. What could be more apt?
paloaltokid 6y ago
I think most serious anarchists acknowledge that humans won't exist in a true state of nature for very long. People will always band together for security which with scale requires administration. That becomes a de facto state. I remember reading this book a long time ago relevant to this idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy,_State,_and_Utopia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy,_State,_and_Utopia
heavyset_go 6y ago
Ulbricht was a self-professed libertarian. He was an anarchist in the same way that libertarians are anarchists, in that they are not anarchists. Libertarians want a state that enforces property restrictions with violence and death, and an economic system that enforces class hierarchy.
- voldacar 6y ago
  cope
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
pmachinery 6y ago
Money obsessed man-children who want to smoke pot are about as "anarchist" as a standard rap verse.
- PostPlummer 6y ago
  Combine this with a unhealthy dose of group think and you got the perfect petri dish / bunker for some really radical believe systems.
  - hnarn 6y ago
    The only reason it's not called a cult at that point is because there's normally no element of religion involved.
ralusek 6y ago
I mean any anarchist that means it in the leftist sense will always fall into the same trap: that they're attempting to describe a system with very specific social and economic outcomes, while either failing to describe the apparatus necessary to achieve those outcomes, or invariably describing an authoritarian state while calling it anything but. "It's not a state. It's a collectivist system of syndicate guilds that democratically allocate..." let me go ahead and cut you off there. That's a state, and an extremely authoritarian one at that.
coolgeek 6y ago
Or maybe they're just drawn to the security aspects? Remote, isolated, underground, designed to resist damage from weapons... As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
rootsudo 6y ago
It's also interesting if you look at the history of CHAZ/CHOP. The first thing they did was enable a security force, and well, I'll leave the rest out but the decisions and fate are interesting and the correlation you make is similar enough. Seattle resident here, Capitol Hill, heh.

by blake1 6y ago

StavrosK 6y ago

They're probably drawn to the symbols of a fallen state. What could be more apt?

paloaltokid 6y ago

I think most serious anarchists acknowledge that humans won't exist in a true state of nature for very long. People will always band together for security which with scale requires administration. That becomes a de facto state. I remember reading this book a long time ago relevant to this idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy,_State,_and_Utopia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy,_State,_and_Utopia

heavyset_go 6y ago

Ulbricht was a self-professed libertarian. He was an anarchist in the same way that libertarians are anarchists, in that they are not anarchists. Libertarians want a state that enforces property restrictions with violence and death, and an economic system that enforces class hierarchy.

voldacar 6y ago
cope
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

pmachinery 6y ago

Money obsessed man-children who want to smoke pot are about as "anarchist" as a standard rap verse.

PostPlummer 6y ago
Combine this with a unhealthy dose of group think and you got the perfect petri dish / bunker for some really radical believe systems.
- hnarn 6y ago
  The only reason it's not called a cult at that point is because there's normally no element of religion involved.

ralusek 6y ago

I mean any anarchist that means it in the leftist sense will always fall into the same trap: that they're attempting to describe a system with very specific social and economic outcomes, while either failing to describe the apparatus necessary to achieve those outcomes, or invariably describing an authoritarian state while calling it anything but. "It's not a state. It's a collectivist system of syndicate guilds that democratically allocate..." let me go ahead and cut you off there. That's a state, and an extremely authoritarian one at that.

coolgeek 6y ago

Or maybe they're just drawn to the security aspects? Remote, isolated, underground, designed to resist damage from weapons... As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

rootsudo 6y ago

It's also interesting if you look at the history of CHAZ/CHOP. The first thing they did was enable a security force, and well, I'll leave the rest out but the decisions and fate are interesting and the correlation you make is similar enough. Seattle resident here, Capitol Hill, heh.