4 ms·

> Hormones that are released by the gut to stimulate insulin secretion and increase feelings of fullness were changed the most by overeating (e.g. GLP-1 and

by notJim 6y ago

> Hormones that are released by the gut to stimulate insulin secretion and increase feelings of fullness were changed the most by overeating (e.g. GLP-1 and peptide YY). I wonder if people who chronically overeat (hello!) develop insensitivity to these hormones, leading to a cycle where it becomes harder to eat the correct amount. Similarly, I wonder if people who tend to eat too little are hyper-sensitive to them, making it hard to gain weight.

leetrout 6y ago
I think it’s a lot of what Tim Ferris talks about in 4 Hour Body.
pier25 6y ago
I once worked with a biochemist that works on diets and he told me that the body "forgets" how to process carbs after a couple of days. If you only indulge in carbs once a week it won't be able to process it, much like the cheat day thing from Tim Ferris. I don't remember the exact technical mechanism he described and quite frankly I don't know if it's true... but there you go.
- mrfusion 6y ago
  Interesting idea. Tim is fine with slow carbs though like legumes.
Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
> I wonder if people who chronically overeat (hello!) develop insensitivity to these hormones, leading to a cycle where it becomes harder to eat the correct amount. Sounds like Leptin Resistance. [0] I wonder if I have that. When I see that my rather sedentary lifestyle means I'm only supposed to eat 2,000 calories a day, I don't see how the hell that's possible without constant hunger. Even if I eat a diet rich in protein and fiber, which is supposed to make me feel fuller longer, I'm still always hungry. I can eat a 20 oz ribeye with a large side of broccoli and wheat rolls (A meal that's likely 1500+ calories) and still be hungry in only 2-3 hours. If I eat something in the 600 calorie range, like a 10 oz chicken breast and veggies, I'll be hungry again in an hour, if I ever even feel full at all. Meanwhile, I know a couple people that say "I eat like a lion and I can't gain weight!" then discover that they'll cook up an 8 oz filet and sides and be full without even eating it all. [0] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/leptin-101 https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/leptin-101
- jdironman 6y ago
  What I am taking from this...is that fullness isnt a quantitative measure...such as caloric consumption...or physical intake but more of a mindset. Our bodies are probably adapted to fluctuating inputs. Our minds are however trained to constant inputs. I feel like staying busy and saying no are the best way to shed weight. I could be just speaking from personal experience though.
- xenospn 6y ago
  I'm like that (I'm skinny and get full very easily - even tho I'm still careful because I'm 40 and any weight I gain now will be increasingly hard to lose), and my friend started gaining weight when he moved to the US a few years ago and it seems his appetite just keeps getting bigger, and he tends to snack right after eating dinner, which I find basically impossible.
- freeqaz 6y ago
  I keep a bag of raw carrots in the fridge to help with this for myself. The other aspect I've found is with periodic fasting, these urges tend to go away for me. I remember being extremely lethargic before dinner when I had a worse diet (lots of carbs). These days I can easily got 16 hours without any loss of energy. Not sure if that's just changing my diet to be less sugar/carbs or if it is because I exercise more. Either way, I don't struggle with extreme hunger very frequently anymore. Hope that anecdote helps!
- mrfusion 6y ago
  Have you tried focusing on eating more fat? That’s probably the most important satiety macronutrient. I add avocado oil to lots of meals to get more fat in my diet.
  - Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
    The 20 oz ribeye meal example is going to have plenty of fat. I started a keto diet about a year ago, which has a decent amount of fat. My breakfast is often a Keto Chow shake, which has 47g fat, 9g fiber, 33g protein, and about 600 calories. Some users of Keto Chow report feeling full for hours. I drink one and will still want more.
solinent 6y ago
(disclaimer: I'm just medically-curious, no accreditation) It's the cause of so much disease, insulin resistance. It's a common thread in the last few years in the research I think, for heart disease & diabetes & fatty liver & metabolic syndrome etc. I think it's like >10% of all people have metabolic syndrome now. It causes issues with the gut, promoting inflammation and that "chubby" appearance you see. It's not all fat--lots of that is simply inflammation of the gut.
gavinray 6y ago
You've given me a chance to put some useless information to use, oh boy! So the article mentions GLP-1, but the primary hormones responsible for hunger and satiety are leptin and ghrelin. Leptin is an anorexic hormone that is produced by adipose tissue. It regulates metabolism, particularly resting/basal metabolic rate. An interesting thing that you'll find with bodybuilders and competetive athletes, is that when you cross into single-digit bodyfat, it becomes significantly more difficult to continue to lose fat. Some people attribute this to a phenomena known as "adaptive thermogenesis", which is the idea that your metabolism adapts and regulates itself based on your lifestyle and environmental factors, so that you don't continue either losing/gaining weight forever. But the major contributing factor is that with diminished adipose tissue, systemic production of leptin is severely reduced and this lowers both metabolic rate and lipolysis. (You can artificially restore leptin production and re-induce lipolysis in a low-bodyfat state through a short window (~36 hours) of carbohydrate overfeeding) On the other side of the coin, you have Ghrelin. Ghrelin is a peptide produced in the stomach, and is pretty solely involved in appetite stimulation. If you've ever taken GHRP (Growth-Hormone-Releasing-Peptide) or Ibutamoren Mesylate (oral growth hormone secretagogue), It will drive you ravenously hungry. A side effect of the peptides/hormones many athletes take for growth hormone production is the release of Ghrelin and a massive appetite, which is great if you're trying to bulk but also tends to make you incredibly tired. So there you go. Bunch of useless information. ---- If anyone is curious, this paper does an astounding job of summarizing the useful bits on Leptin + Ghrelin: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2006.00270.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-789X...
- mrfusion 6y ago
  Now why did the leptin diet pill never work out? Would injections work?
  - gavinray 6y ago
    I would imagine the same persistent problem with human physiology -- which is the tendency towards homeostasis. Human body is remarkable in responsive to disturbances in balance. You can generally throw things off a fair degree before the systems behind whatever you've thrown off adapt and scale down responses. Generally when you see things in the extreme in humans, somewhere in the line there's a malfunction in regulation that allowed that state to be reached (or chemical intervention, e.g. anabolic steroids, substance abuse, etc). Almost anything will work for a little, but the only thing that works forever are things that can become lifestyle factors. There are a handful of exceptions for "magic diet pills", but please for the love of god don't listen to what I'm about to say below as anything more than science: - Phentermine - [Rx but can outright buy it from "Medical Spas" pretty cheap (how is this legal?)] Stimulatory appetitete suppressant, effects are essentially amphetamine minus the dopaminergic activity (no high, sorry) ---- - Sibutramine - [Rx, Phentermine's little brother] ---- - 2,4-Dinitrophenol (DNP) - [Not legal for sale, but you can buy it online if you're determined] It's what's called a "mitochondrial uncoupler". It disrupts the Krebbs Cycle so that resynthesis of ATP from ADP becomes incredibly inefficient, and it expels the discarded energy as heat. This is the holy grail of fatloss. You can lose 1.0-1.5lbs of pure adipose tissue (not water/glycogen) per day. But the excess heat will cause you an incurable, agonizing death if you overdose. Also makes you hot all day, probably dangerous if you work in the heat.
hderms 6y ago
I have no hard data to give you, only anecdote. But ever since I've consciously tried to reduce the quantity and frequency of my meals, I feel like my 'stomach has shrunk'. It's most likely something like what you're describing, as I don't literally believe my stomach has shrank, but there may be something to that folk phrase.
- piva00 6y ago
  Anecdotally I can second you here. Back in 2012 I lost 12 kg in about 3 months by counting calories to get to my ideal weight, it was pretty hard as I was still eating breakfast + lunch + dinner and trying to squeeze my calories around the day. Fast-forward some years, 2015-16 I wanted to drop 5 kg during winter but wasn't very keen on counting calories again, I started skipping breakfast and having late lunch, unaware of intermittent fasting schemes, restricting myself to eat between 3pm-9pm made it much, much easier to control my hunger pangs. After a week or two I didn't wake up hungry anymore, at all, the hunger feeling was much easier to control and forget about. To this day I don't really feel very hungry during a day, at least not in the way I would feel before where I needed to eat, would get quite irritable and so on. I've forgotten to eat proper meals during days I've been active just because the hunger doesn't really bother me, it's a pretty good feeling to be honest.

by notJim 6y ago

leetrout 6y ago

I think it’s a lot of what Tim Ferris talks about in 4 Hour Body.

pier25 6y ago

I once worked with a biochemist that works on diets and he told me that the body "forgets" how to process carbs after a couple of days. If you only indulge in carbs once a week it won't be able to process it, much like the cheat day thing from Tim Ferris. I don't remember the exact technical mechanism he described and quite frankly I don't know if it's true... but there you go.

mrfusion 6y ago
Interesting idea. Tim is fine with slow carbs though like legumes.

Sohcahtoa82 6y ago

> I wonder if people who chronically overeat (hello!) develop insensitivity to these hormones, leading to a cycle where it becomes harder to eat the correct amount. Sounds like Leptin Resistance. [0] I wonder if I have that. When I see that my rather sedentary lifestyle means I'm only supposed to eat 2,000 calories a day, I don't see how the hell that's possible without constant hunger. Even if I eat a diet rich in protein and fiber, which is supposed to make me feel fuller longer, I'm still always hungry. I can eat a 20 oz ribeye with a large side of broccoli and wheat rolls (A meal that's likely 1500+ calories) and still be hungry in only 2-3 hours. If I eat something in the 600 calorie range, like a 10 oz chicken breast and veggies, I'll be hungry again in an hour, if I ever even feel full at all. Meanwhile, I know a couple people that say "I eat like a lion and I can't gain weight!" then discover that they'll cook up an 8 oz filet and sides and be full without even eating it all. [0] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/leptin-101 https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/leptin-101

jdironman 6y ago
What I am taking from this...is that fullness isnt a quantitative measure...such as caloric consumption...or physical intake but more of a mindset. Our bodies are probably adapted to fluctuating inputs. Our minds are however trained to constant inputs. I feel like staying busy and saying no are the best way to shed weight. I could be just speaking from personal experience though.
xenospn 6y ago
I'm like that (I'm skinny and get full very easily - even tho I'm still careful because I'm 40 and any weight I gain now will be increasingly hard to lose), and my friend started gaining weight when he moved to the US a few years ago and it seems his appetite just keeps getting bigger, and he tends to snack right after eating dinner, which I find basically impossible.
freeqaz 6y ago
I keep a bag of raw carrots in the fridge to help with this for myself. The other aspect I've found is with periodic fasting, these urges tend to go away for me. I remember being extremely lethargic before dinner when I had a worse diet (lots of carbs). These days I can easily got 16 hours without any loss of energy. Not sure if that's just changing my diet to be less sugar/carbs or if it is because I exercise more. Either way, I don't struggle with extreme hunger very frequently anymore. Hope that anecdote helps!
mrfusion 6y ago
Have you tried focusing on eating more fat? That’s probably the most important satiety macronutrient. I add avocado oil to lots of meals to get more fat in my diet.
- Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
  The 20 oz ribeye meal example is going to have plenty of fat. I started a keto diet about a year ago, which has a decent amount of fat. My breakfast is often a Keto Chow shake, which has 47g fat, 9g fiber, 33g protein, and about 600 calories. Some users of Keto Chow report feeling full for hours. I drink one and will still want more.

solinent 6y ago

(disclaimer: I'm just medically-curious, no accreditation) It's the cause of so much disease, insulin resistance. It's a common thread in the last few years in the research I think, for heart disease & diabetes & fatty liver & metabolic syndrome etc. I think it's like >10% of all people have metabolic syndrome now. It causes issues with the gut, promoting inflammation and that "chubby" appearance you see. It's not all fat--lots of that is simply inflammation of the gut.

gavinray 6y ago

You've given me a chance to put some useless information to use, oh boy! So the article mentions GLP-1, but the primary hormones responsible for hunger and satiety are leptin and ghrelin. Leptin is an anorexic hormone that is produced by adipose tissue. It regulates metabolism, particularly resting/basal metabolic rate. An interesting thing that you'll find with bodybuilders and competetive athletes, is that when you cross into single-digit bodyfat, it becomes significantly more difficult to continue to lose fat. Some people attribute this to a phenomena known as "adaptive thermogenesis", which is the idea that your metabolism adapts and regulates itself based on your lifestyle and environmental factors, so that you don't continue either losing/gaining weight forever. But the major contributing factor is that with diminished adipose tissue, systemic production of leptin is severely reduced and this lowers both metabolic rate and lipolysis. (You can artificially restore leptin production and re-induce lipolysis in a low-bodyfat state through a short window (~36 hours) of carbohydrate overfeeding) On the other side of the coin, you have Ghrelin. Ghrelin is a peptide produced in the stomach, and is pretty solely involved in appetite stimulation. If you've ever taken GHRP (Growth-Hormone-Releasing-Peptide) or Ibutamoren Mesylate (oral growth hormone secretagogue), It will drive you ravenously hungry. A side effect of the peptides/hormones many athletes take for growth hormone production is the release of Ghrelin and a massive appetite, which is great if you're trying to bulk but also tends to make you incredibly tired. So there you go. Bunch of useless information. ---- If anyone is curious, this paper does an astounding job of summarizing the useful bits on Leptin + Ghrelin: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2006.00270.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-789X...

mrfusion 6y ago
Now why did the leptin diet pill never work out? Would injections work?
- gavinray 6y ago
  I would imagine the same persistent problem with human physiology -- which is the tendency towards homeostasis. Human body is remarkable in responsive to disturbances in balance. You can generally throw things off a fair degree before the systems behind whatever you've thrown off adapt and scale down responses. Generally when you see things in the extreme in humans, somewhere in the line there's a malfunction in regulation that allowed that state to be reached (or chemical intervention, e.g. anabolic steroids, substance abuse, etc). Almost anything will work for a little, but the only thing that works forever are things that can become lifestyle factors. There are a handful of exceptions for "magic diet pills", but please for the love of god don't listen to what I'm about to say below as anything more than science: - Phentermine - [Rx but can outright buy it from "Medical Spas" pretty cheap (how is this legal?)] Stimulatory appetitete suppressant, effects are essentially amphetamine minus the dopaminergic activity (no high, sorry) ---- - Sibutramine - [Rx, Phentermine's little brother] ---- - 2,4-Dinitrophenol (DNP) - [Not legal for sale, but you can buy it online if you're determined] It's what's called a "mitochondrial uncoupler". It disrupts the Krebbs Cycle so that resynthesis of ATP from ADP becomes incredibly inefficient, and it expels the discarded energy as heat. This is the holy grail of fatloss. You can lose 1.0-1.5lbs of pure adipose tissue (not water/glycogen) per day. But the excess heat will cause you an incurable, agonizing death if you overdose. Also makes you hot all day, probably dangerous if you work in the heat.

hderms 6y ago

I have no hard data to give you, only anecdote. But ever since I've consciously tried to reduce the quantity and frequency of my meals, I feel like my 'stomach has shrunk'. It's most likely something like what you're describing, as I don't literally believe my stomach has shrank, but there may be something to that folk phrase.

piva00 6y ago
Anecdotally I can second you here. Back in 2012 I lost 12 kg in about 3 months by counting calories to get to my ideal weight, it was pretty hard as I was still eating breakfast + lunch + dinner and trying to squeeze my calories around the day. Fast-forward some years, 2015-16 I wanted to drop 5 kg during winter but wasn't very keen on counting calories again, I started skipping breakfast and having late lunch, unaware of intermittent fasting schemes, restricting myself to eat between 3pm-9pm made it much, much easier to control my hunger pangs. After a week or two I didn't wake up hungry anymore, at all, the hunger feeling was much easier to control and forget about. To this day I don't really feel very hungry during a day, at least not in the way I would feel before where I needed to eat, would get quite irritable and so on. I've forgotten to eat proper meals during days I've been active just because the hunger doesn't really bother me, it's a pretty good feeling to be honest.