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I started reading his book Breath, and he made the starting claim that, in essence, you could choose to be either energetic or restful by picking one nostril to
by impendia 6y ago
I started reading his book Breath, and he made the starting claim that, in essence, you could choose to be either energetic or restful by picking one nostril to breathe out of for awhile. (Naturally we breath out of one nostril at a time, and the body goes back and forth, but "it's a balance that can also be gamed").
I found this claim a bit... suspicious, and Googled, and didn't find much scientific evidence for this claim. I found a bunch of blog posts by yoga-affiliated people, and the like.
I asked about this on Biology Stack Exchange, unfortunately with no answer.
https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/94651/ https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/94651/
I would be very curious if any HN reader knows more about this. That said, my impression of Nestor (who is a journalist, and not a scientist) was that he was perhaps a bit too eager to jump to conclusions.
- Romanulus 6y agoThis is interesting and I'd love to hear some kind of real-science debunking (as I'm sure it would be the case)... or conversely, showing someone (via video and some kind of monitoring device) directing air in and out of one or the other nostril at will.
- jamesakirk 6y agoYou use your hand to clamp down one nostril. Lookup Nadi Shodhana.
- Romanulus 6y agoDamn... you just took a pencil to space with that comment. :)
- jcims 6y agoIt could be constructive application of the placebo effect. Try it.
- whoisjuan 6y ago> In essence, you could choose to be either energetic or restful by picking one nostril to breathe out of for awhile. Why not just try it? This is such a simple and safe experiment. You can do it and generate your own conclusions.
- technothrasher 6y ago"Just try it" is interesting and can be fun. But it is a messy path to truth, because we humans are inherently terrible data collection machines. Likely the OP recognizes this and was looking for more objective data.
- dcuthbertson 6y ago> Naturally we breath out of one nostril at a time I don't understand how anyone can make that statement with a straight face. Unless one nostril is blocked, we use both simultaneously. There's no balance to be gamed.
- ivank 6y ago70-80% of adults have a alternating congested nostril https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_cycle https://www.rhinologyonline.org/Rhinology_online_issues/2018/18021_Pendolino.pdf https://www.rhinologyonline.org/Rhinology_online_issues/2018...
- isbjorn16 6y agoIt's weird how much we take for granted without ever expecting it to be different for others. I thought you guys were just screwing with me re: having an alternating congested nostril. Like, I only experience that during severe nasal congestion, and it seems mostly to stick with one side or the other depending on which side I'm laying on. It never even occurred to me that people would experience something like that _all the time_!
- taneq 6y agoSame, unless I’m sick my nostrils stay even.
- afterburner 6y agoI still don't get it. Do these people not blow their nose?
- irthomasthomas 6y agoJust pay attention to it during the day. It alternates left to right with a short time in the middle when they are both open.
- bravura 6y agoI mean, you have a dominant hand. Doing everything with the non dominant will affect your experience. You have a dominant eye. Focusing on the other eye will also affect your experience. Why not a dominant nostril?
- prox 6y agoIt comes from yoga, alternate nostril breathing. There is no scientific basis for the regulation claim afaik and the idea here is that both nostrils are linked to nadis, energy channels. While the nasal cycle does seem brain connected, Ive seen no proof it actually works upon the nervous system (as claimed) apart from the fact the practice is relaxing.
- getpost 6y agoI haven't tried the one nostril approach except briefly in yoga class, but you can control your energetic/restful activation level by controlling the length of inhalation and exhalation. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201905/longer-exhalations-are-easy-way-hack-your-vagus-nerve https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201... "Box breathing" https://quietkit.com/box-breathing/ https://quietkit.com/box-breathing/
- perfmode 6y agowhy don’t you simply try it and see?
- Rebelgecko 6y agoHow do you handle the placebo effect?
- Buttons840 6y agoJust don't handle it. The placebo effect tells us that some things that have no reason for working, work anyways.
- richthegeek 6y agoThat's not what it is at all. The placebo effect tells us that the thing we were doing did not cause the measured effect. If it's a placebo effect causing us to feel calmer, we could as easily hold a can of beans and be calmer if we believed it to cause us to become calmer.
- glxxyz 6y agoNo the placebo effect tells us that if we ask some people if some things are working, they tell us that they are working, when those things are not in fact working.
- jclos 6y agoIf you are not writing a paper, building a product, or treating it as scientific knowledge does it really matter?
- crazynick4 6y agoHere are a couple studies I just googled https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3681046/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3681046/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4728953/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4728953/ As far as personal experience, I find breathing exercises should be slow and deep, generally with breath retention that is extended over time, as opposed to just deep breathing in and out at a 'regular' speed. Traditional yoga usually emphasizes this (as opposed to the new-age westernized yoga). I think many people who find no results just breathe deep but dont slow it down. You should feel like your breath has been 'stretched' by the time you're done. Id also find a good teacher if you're serious because you can definitely overdo it/do it wrong.
- llbeansandrice 6y agoThis helps validate me. I swear every yoga class I've been to I'm breathing at like 3/4 speed of everyone else in the class and so the flow moves too fast for me.
- vosper 6y ago> I swear every yoga class I've been to I'm breathing at like 3/4 speed of everyone else in the class and so the flow moves too fast for me. Heh, you're doing better than me: every yoga class I've been in (more than a few) I've lost track of the breathing in the first few minutes, but whenever I do manage to tune back into it I always find it way slower than what feels natural. Maybe I should make more of an effort, rather than being like "welp, I can't breathe like that, back to just my body do what it wants". This even after going multiple times a week for 6 months.
- voidhorse 6y agoThere’s an entire practice around this stemming from yogic philosophy called nadi shoodana—alternate nostril breathing—the theory essentially says doing this can regulate different male and female energies in the body, which are both responsible for different things, including energy levels (hyper vs relaxed). I can’t personally attest to any of the deeper claims of the theory, but I have used the alternate nostril breathing as part of meditation practice and I can say that focusing on the breath in this way at the very least helps one enter a meditative state, like many other pranayama techniques. I’ve never dug into the science attempting to prove the proclaimed effects since experientially it helps me enter meditation, which is what I value it for—I’m not so sure its a good use of time trying to validate the overarching theoretical claims of ancient sources—the practices can still be highly beneficial even if the claims aren’t correct, and I think the main benefit of controlled breathing practices relate to meditation. (that said the body is an interconnected system so its totally plausible that regulating the breath, thus the heartbeat, thus the flow of blood throughout the system could have system wide effects). If nothing else, hopefully these terms help you in your research.
- daragh99 6y agoAgreed. The practices seem to have an affect that I find useful and interesting. The metaphysical/energetic claims I can put to one side.
- starpilot 6y agoGender is a social construct.
- busdriver777 6y agoSociety is a social construct. Gender was here way before society. Gender is biological.
- cwkoss 6y agoIf anyone else was confused (I was and had to google), the practice of alternate nostril breathing entails physically obstructing alternating nostrils with a finger as you take breaths.
- spaetzleesser 6y agoWith a lot of these things I would highly recommend to just try it. If it works for you, good. If not, don't do it. It doesn't cost anything and you won't harm yourself. I started yoga before it became mainstream and with a lot of the practices I tried them for myself. For example I noticed that some pranayama practices work for me and others don't. Back then pretty much every "serious" scientist or doctor would have told you that all this is nonsense. Same for meditation. Try it. there is not much to lose. It doesn't cost anything and won't harm you. Worst case it doesn't work.
- eblanshey 6y agoThis. The purpose of science is to discover the truth, not make the truth. You don't science to confirm everything before you try it. With things like breathing where you know it's not going to cause harm, just try it for yourself.
- tines 6y agoThe problem is that you're biased - confirmation bias, expectation bias, selection bias, optimism bias, observer expectancy effect, the list goes on - and you end up learning all things except the truth.
- onemoresoop 6y agoAs long as it does something beneficial who cares after all what the bias is? Placebo may play a role in it but once again, what do we care about here, whether something is beneficial or whether it can be explained why it is beneficial? For some the former and for some the latter, ofc depending on perspective.
- CamperBob2 6y agoAs long as it does something beneficial who cares after all what the bias is? I do. I hate being wrong about stuff.
- osdiab 6y agoI’ve found that doing it has helped me sleep when I’m restless at night - I think it’s more about giving you something concrete to focus on in order to make you more conscious of your body’s sensations, not necessarily something special about breathing through specific nostrils.
- asimovfan 6y agoi.e. meditation
- abhchand 6y agoThis practice exists in traditional eastern Yoga - breathing out of one nostril and in with the other. A similar explanation is given about it having a calming and energetic effect. I know that doesn't provide the evidence you were looking for, but hopefully it provides some context on where this might have originated from.
- mkbkn 6y agoGoogle "Swar Vigyan". Instead of looking for "studies", try these things on yourself for 30 days or so and journal what you experience. Or try this - Take breath with right nostril only - you'll feel warm or more energetic. Later take breath with left nostril only - you'll feel cold or more relaxed. You can gamify this system when you certain type of tasks. Or ask any old-school Yoga/Meditation teacher, preferably someone with roots in India.
- Integrity 6y agoI've dropped my blood pressure significantly in minutes with diaphragm breathing. Measured it. - Also, if you face the palms of your hands up, it mysteriously opens the lungs and allows for deeper more relaxed breathing. As to your comments about the author's claims, I too am weary about a few.
- nprateem 6y agoThe branch of yoga that covers this is swara yoga. There are books on it. Maybe worth investigating if you're interested.
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago“Differential effects of uninostril and alternate nostril pranayamas on cardiovascular parameters and reaction time“ by Ananda Bhavanani Bhavanani, Meena Ramanathan,1 R Balaji,2 and D Pushpa2 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4097918/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4097918/
- piokoch 6y agoI think the article lacks one more "standard" claim for this type of pseudo-science writings: slow breathing cures cancer.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]