6 ms·

Promising, but how close is it to being ready for consumer use? If all it can do is make/receive phone calls, SMS, and act as a WiFi hotspot, and cost less tha

by mikece 6y ago

Promising, but how close is it to being ready for consumer use? If all it can do is make/receive phone calls, SMS, and act as a WiFi hotspot, and cost less than USD$300 that would satisfy my list of desires.

airstrike 6y ago
If I recall correctly, the last thread I saw on this, the biggest hurdle was the sheer size of the device. It looked like it was discovered in a time capsule from the 1990s
- mr_spothawk 6y ago
  Excellent.
- RandomBacon 6y ago
  One person's "con", another person's "pro".
  - wott 6y ago
    It's not a matter of contesting the race to thinness. Here, the stuff is as thick as two not-especially-thin phones; it is reaching the realm of PDAs, except it hasn't got the clamshell and the keyboard.
    - seba_dos1 6y ago
      It is pretty thick, but both my previous phones - Nokia N900 and Openmoko Neo Freerunner - were thicker. Personally the thickness doesn't bother me at all, it feels right in the hand; if I could magically change it without influencing anything else I would rather make the screen smaller. https://social.librem.one/@dos/103330147264111430 https://social.librem.one/@dos/103330147264111430
- paulcole 6y ago
  You weren't kidding. They do a pretty good job of hiding photos that show the side view. But wow that thing is dummy thicc.
gentleman11 6y ago
Not mine. I need anki, authy, a calculator, a good podcast app, an audiobook app, a VPN, security/privacy, and then just a really long battery life. An aside: if apple would stop making the new iOS updates so draining on older phones it would help - the last iOS update took my battery from 2.5 days without a charge to 1.7 days “overnight” - imagine what this did to people who didn’t buy the silly oversized model with the lower screeen resolution? It’s basically a malware attack on their users to force them to update
- junipertea 6y ago
  You are always free not to install the latest update and have the android experience of using an old version OS on a 2 year old phone. On a serious note, I don't think they reduce your battery on purpose, the class action lawsuits Apple lost handled that. It might be just optimising runtime and letting your phone handle new apps? So CPU runs faster and squeezes out more performance?
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  PinePhone has most of those, but if you're insisted on a specific app/brand, you are limiting yourself. For instance, Mobian comes with a 2FA app. Authy is a bad security choice anyways because you shouldn't send your 2FA tokens to a cloud.
  - ac29 6y ago
    > Authy is a bad security choice anyways because you shouldn't send your 2FA tokens to a cloud. Curious what your solution is for non-cloud backed up 2FA tokens. Phones break, get lost, and get stolen, so backups have to be done somehow.
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      Those QR codes are much safer on paper, secured well, than any digital medium that can be hacked. The cloud is a dumb place to store secrets, as anyone on the planet can attack your secret storage. Almost any offline medium (including a Post-It stuck to your monitor on your desk!) is inherently safer.
kop316 6y ago
The Pinephone can do that actually: https://wiki.mobian-project.org/doku.php?id=pinephone https://wiki.mobian-project.org/doku.php?id=pinephone How to set up a wifi HotSpot is here: https://wiki.mobian-project.org/doku.php?id=tweaks https://wiki.mobian-project.org/doku.php?id=tweaks Although note, as of now, neither the Pinephone nor the Librem 5 can do MMS (they both share ModemManager and it doesn't have MMS functionality)
- nt8r 6y ago
  You can use ofono and mmsd on the Pinephone to get MMS working for both attachments and group chats: https://sr.ht/~anteater/mms-stack/ https://sr.ht/~anteater/mms-stack/
  - kop316 6y ago
    To my knowledge, only Ubuntu Touch uses ofono and mmsd. But Ubuntu Touch doesn't support MMS for the Pinephone yet either (per their Gitlab).
- fosco 6y ago
  >Although note, as of now, neither the Pinephone nor the Librem 5 can do MMS (they both share ModemManager and it doesn't have MMS functionality) are there any recent discussions about debugging MMS on Pinephone I could peruse?
  - kop316 6y ago
    Well its not debugging, the functionality isn't there. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mobile-broadband/ModemManager/-/issues/227 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mobile-broadband/ModemManager... There's a start
  - nt8r 6y ago
    What have you tried? Things should "just work" if you install ofono and MMSd. There are more details (urls, which forks are involved) at https://sr.ht/~anteater/mms-stack/ https://sr.ht/~anteater/mms-stack/ The basic debugging workflow is to run ofono, run MMSd, and try the scripts under the `test` directory in MMSd's source tree. Error messages logged from the script, MMSd, or ofono might be relevant. MMSd (mms parsing, mostly) and ofono (dual-stack IPv4/IPv6 networking) need patching to make MMS work on T-Mobile; other providers might also need debugging or custom patches.
jchw 6y ago
I just recently received my PinePhone Braveheart unit, which is by no means a similar device. However, I did try running Mobian, which runs a similar stack (including Librem’s innovative Phosh.) It actually is pretty impressive, and even though it is not aimed at consumer use it is pretty close to being usable as a basic phone with Linux. There’s really two problems. 1. Speed. The CPUs are just underwhelming. It is not unusable by any means, but it definitely feels like many steps backwards. I think at least the PinePhone needs to be running lighter software; Wayland is certainly not an issue, but a lot of heavy GTK software is probably not a good idea. Web browsing is tricky and makes me wish there existed lightweight browser engines that implemented less of the web standard, but it is actually passable believe it or not. 2. Linux desktop software is just not designed for phones. I think Phosh is clever, and feels very nice to use... until you remember its a phone, and then realize the inherent differences. Normal phones have some kind of central push notification management, but not here. I assume when the device sleeps, you simply stop getting any notifications. I haven’t actually seen a notification pop up on the lockscreen yet, so I’m not sure. There’s an SMS and messaging app, and Telegram/tdesktop works really well, so there is that. I think that both problems could be solved somehow, but it’s feeling like it could be a tough one. One of the things that both iOS and Android did right off the bat was dramatically change the model of execution that apps had, to orient them around the concept of constantly being swapped in and out. There’s really no obvious way you can support standard Linux desktop apps without some compromise here. I would actually be pretty happy if these devices were capable of just staying awake on a low frequency most of the time, because I think that would dramatically simplify things, but you would have to worry a lot about power draw from apps running and etc in ways that you don’t have to in most modern phones. Some may view the lack of a good push notification story as a benefit, but for me there are definitely things where I want it to be reliable and timely... so I am left feeling a bit lost.
- qchris 6y ago
  I'm not sure I've had that issue with Mobian--I definitely am able to receive phone calls while it's sleeping in the other room, so it's not like there's an inherent inability to push notifications during sleep. I think that using `libnotify-bin` is the recommended library for doing notifications at the moment, although I haven't tested it to see if it pops up during sleep. I did my first "Hello, world" app for it on Mobian on Pinephone, linked below, with that library and that seems to work pretty well. [1] https://github.com/quietlychris/mobian_hello https://github.com/quietlychris/mobian_hello Edit: After some prelim testing, it does look like the notification from the example I linked doesn't get pushed to the phone while it's sleeping. Unless there's been a fix pushed in the week or so since I've updated it, looks like that's still a to-do.
Waterfall 6y ago
It's been promising for years and under delivering. You could get all that with a cheapo phone that is given out free on prepaid.

by mikece 6y ago

airstrike 6y ago

If I recall correctly, the last thread I saw on this, the biggest hurdle was the sheer size of the device. It looked like it was discovered in a time capsule from the 1990s

mr_spothawk 6y ago
Excellent.
RandomBacon 6y ago
One person's "con", another person's "pro".
- wott 6y ago
  It's not a matter of contesting the race to thinness. Here, the stuff is as thick as two not-especially-thin phones; it is reaching the realm of PDAs, except it hasn't got the clamshell and the keyboard.
  - seba_dos1 6y ago
    It is pretty thick, but both my previous phones - Nokia N900 and Openmoko Neo Freerunner - were thicker. Personally the thickness doesn't bother me at all, it feels right in the hand; if I could magically change it without influencing anything else I would rather make the screen smaller. https://social.librem.one/@dos/103330147264111430 https://social.librem.one/@dos/103330147264111430
paulcole 6y ago
You weren't kidding. They do a pretty good job of hiding photos that show the side view. But wow that thing is dummy thicc.

gentleman11 6y ago

Not mine. I need anki, authy, a calculator, a good podcast app, an audiobook app, a VPN, security/privacy, and then just a really long battery life. An aside: if apple would stop making the new iOS updates so draining on older phones it would help - the last iOS update took my battery from 2.5 days without a charge to 1.7 days “overnight” - imagine what this did to people who didn’t buy the silly oversized model with the lower screeen resolution? It’s basically a malware attack on their users to force them to update

junipertea 6y ago
You are always free not to install the latest update and have the android experience of using an old version OS on a 2 year old phone. On a serious note, I don't think they reduce your battery on purpose, the class action lawsuits Apple lost handled that. It might be just optimising runtime and letting your phone handle new apps? So CPU runs faster and squeezes out more performance?
ocdtrekkie 6y ago
PinePhone has most of those, but if you're insisted on a specific app/brand, you are limiting yourself. For instance, Mobian comes with a 2FA app. Authy is a bad security choice anyways because you shouldn't send your 2FA tokens to a cloud.
- ac29 6y ago
  > Authy is a bad security choice anyways because you shouldn't send your 2FA tokens to a cloud. Curious what your solution is for non-cloud backed up 2FA tokens. Phones break, get lost, and get stolen, so backups have to be done somehow.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    Those QR codes are much safer on paper, secured well, than any digital medium that can be hacked. The cloud is a dumb place to store secrets, as anyone on the planet can attack your secret storage. Almost any offline medium (including a Post-It stuck to your monitor on your desk!) is inherently safer.

kop316 6y ago

The Pinephone can do that actually: https://wiki.mobian-project.org/doku.php?id=pinephone https://wiki.mobian-project.org/doku.php?id=pinephone How to set up a wifi HotSpot is here: https://wiki.mobian-project.org/doku.php?id=tweaks https://wiki.mobian-project.org/doku.php?id=tweaks Although note, as of now, neither the Pinephone nor the Librem 5 can do MMS (they both share ModemManager and it doesn't have MMS functionality)

nt8r 6y ago
You can use ofono and mmsd on the Pinephone to get MMS working for both attachments and group chats: https://sr.ht/~anteater/mms-stack/ https://sr.ht/~anteater/mms-stack/
- kop316 6y ago
  To my knowledge, only Ubuntu Touch uses ofono and mmsd. But Ubuntu Touch doesn't support MMS for the Pinephone yet either (per their Gitlab).
fosco 6y ago
>Although note, as of now, neither the Pinephone nor the Librem 5 can do MMS (they both share ModemManager and it doesn't have MMS functionality) are there any recent discussions about debugging MMS on Pinephone I could peruse?
- kop316 6y ago
  Well its not debugging, the functionality isn't there. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mobile-broadband/ModemManager/-/issues/227 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mobile-broadband/ModemManager... There's a start
- nt8r 6y ago
  What have you tried? Things should "just work" if you install ofono and MMSd. There are more details (urls, which forks are involved) at https://sr.ht/~anteater/mms-stack/ https://sr.ht/~anteater/mms-stack/ The basic debugging workflow is to run ofono, run MMSd, and try the scripts under the `test` directory in MMSd's source tree. Error messages logged from the script, MMSd, or ofono might be relevant. MMSd (mms parsing, mostly) and ofono (dual-stack IPv4/IPv6 networking) need patching to make MMS work on T-Mobile; other providers might also need debugging or custom patches.

jchw 6y ago

I just recently received my PinePhone Braveheart unit, which is by no means a similar device. However, I did try running Mobian, which runs a similar stack (including Librem’s innovative Phosh.) It actually is pretty impressive, and even though it is not aimed at consumer use it is pretty close to being usable as a basic phone with Linux. There’s really two problems. 1. Speed. The CPUs are just underwhelming. It is not unusable by any means, but it definitely feels like many steps backwards. I think at least the PinePhone needs to be running lighter software; Wayland is certainly not an issue, but a lot of heavy GTK software is probably not a good idea. Web browsing is tricky and makes me wish there existed lightweight browser engines that implemented less of the web standard, but it is actually passable believe it or not. 2. Linux desktop software is just not designed for phones. I think Phosh is clever, and feels very nice to use... until you remember its a phone, and then realize the inherent differences. Normal phones have some kind of central push notification management, but not here. I assume when the device sleeps, you simply stop getting any notifications. I haven’t actually seen a notification pop up on the lockscreen yet, so I’m not sure. There’s an SMS and messaging app, and Telegram/tdesktop works really well, so there is that. I think that both problems could be solved somehow, but it’s feeling like it could be a tough one. One of the things that both iOS and Android did right off the bat was dramatically change the model of execution that apps had, to orient them around the concept of constantly being swapped in and out. There’s really no obvious way you can support standard Linux desktop apps without some compromise here. I would actually be pretty happy if these devices were capable of just staying awake on a low frequency most of the time, because I think that would dramatically simplify things, but you would have to worry a lot about power draw from apps running and etc in ways that you don’t have to in most modern phones. Some may view the lack of a good push notification story as a benefit, but for me there are definitely things where I want it to be reliable and timely... so I am left feeling a bit lost.

qchris 6y ago
I'm not sure I've had that issue with Mobian--I definitely am able to receive phone calls while it's sleeping in the other room, so it's not like there's an inherent inability to push notifications during sleep. I think that using `libnotify-bin` is the recommended library for doing notifications at the moment, although I haven't tested it to see if it pops up during sleep. I did my first "Hello, world" app for it on Mobian on Pinephone, linked below, with that library and that seems to work pretty well. [1] https://github.com/quietlychris/mobian_hello https://github.com/quietlychris/mobian_hello Edit: After some prelim testing, it does look like the notification from the example I linked doesn't get pushed to the phone while it's sleeping. Unless there's been a fix pushed in the week or so since I've updated it, looks like that's still a to-do.

Waterfall 6y ago

It's been promising for years and under delivering. You could get all that with a cheapo phone that is given out free on prepaid.