4 ms·

> I don't understand the problem It's pretty infuriating seeing Americans say that there's nothing wrong with people being trapped in their own countries and u

> I don't understand the problem It's pretty infuriating seeing Americans say that there's nothing wrong with people being trapped in their own countries and unable to move around. Nobody should be trapped in a country, and nobody's movement should be restricted by their nationality.

DamnYuppie 6y ago
So sovereign countries have no right to refuse entry to those who are not their citizens?
- closeparen 6y ago
  "Sovereign" means they have sufficient force and technical ability, not a moral right.
ciarannolan 6y ago
> Nobody should be trapped in a country, and nobody's movement should be restricted by their nationality. What an absurd sense of entitlement. You're not entitled to travel anywhere on earth despite your utopian dreams.
- JSavageOne 6y ago
  > What an absurd sense of entitlement. You're not entitled to travel anywhere on earth despite your utopian dreams. How ironic that you're calling me entitled, and then in the same breath you tell me that my freedom of movement must abide by your personal opinions regarding freedom. You'd make a great grunt soldier in the North Korean regime. You can trap your citizens in their country, and tell them they're "entitled" for wanting to leave and pursue their "utopian dreams". What a stupid comment.
  - DuskStar 6y ago
    I think no one should be trapped within their country because their country won't let them leave. Being trapped because no one wants to take you is a very different situation.
    - JSavageOne 6y ago
      I don't think anyone should be denied entry to a country if they're willing to undergo a 2 week quarantine at their own expense.
    - bromuro 6y ago
      Well most of the people in the world are locked into their countries. This is just crying for a privilege lost for a short amount of time. Yet for a foreigner must be difficult to be locked in the US. I’d freak out.
  - ciarannolan 6y ago
    Ad hominem all you want, but you're playing word games. > How ironic that you're calling me entitled, and then in the same breath you tell me that my freedom of movement must abide by your personal opinions regarding freedom. If not letting certain people into my country, to use my resources, is telling you that you must abide by my "personal opinions regarding freedom", then guilty as charged. Until we receive passport protocols from on high, that's what we're stuck with. It's incredibly entitled to say "gee I feel like living in _____, they must let me do as I please." It's not entitled to say "lol no."
    - JSavageOne 6y ago
      Right so you believe in closed borders, travel bans, visa applications, passports, etc etc. I get it. You'd love Trump. We can disagree on this issue, but don't tell me I'm "entitled" for saying that from a moral perspective, the concept of restricting one's international movement based on their nationality is ridiculous, especially if they don't actually live in their home country anymore. I don't know if you actually read the article, but it is extremely humiliating that the passport lottery giving you a passport from the wrong country makes any attempt to leave your country a nightmare. Hopefully now with COVID more Americans can empathize with this, and we can get rid of this border/via/passport nonsense.
      - ciarannolan 6y ago
        Yes, I believe in "closed borders, travel bans, visa applications, [and] passports [...]". I don't know what else "etc etc" entails though. Is it possible that I believe in those things and find Trump repulsive? Look through my comments and tell me if you think I "love Trump". Another swing and miss at ad hominem instead of a legitimate argument. > We can disagree on this issue, but don't tell me I'm "entitled" for saying that from a moral perspective, the concept of restricting one's international movement based on their nationality is ridiculous, especially if they don't actually live in their home country anymore. I think it's entitlement to believe you are owed access to another person's homeland for no reason other than the fact that you're a person. By what right are you entitled to live in and enjoy the benefits of a country and society that someone else has built? In my opinion you have no natural right to this whatsoever. >[...] we can get rid of this border/via/passport nonsense. Thankfully this will never happen. You can bet the farm on it.
jkingsbery 6y ago
Let me clarify my point: 1. America having a ton of COVID, and people being trapped - definitely a big problem. 2. Americans not able to travel (and most travel is for pleasure) as much as they would like because other countries temporarily won't accept us, in order to limit their own countries' exposure to COVID: not really a problem, and in fact a rational result of an actual problem (see Point 1).
- JSavageOne 6y ago
  I don't think anyone should be denied entry to a country if they're willing to undergo a 2 week quarantine at their own expense. Banning countries may have made sense in the beginning when COVID was blowing up, we didn't know much about the virus, and healthcare systems weren't prepared, but at this point countries should have their act together (and many like South Korea and Hong Kong have handled it extremely well), and we know that as bad as the virus is, it's magnitudes of order less deadly than we thought. In any case, I've heard of stories of U.S. nationals living abroad being denied boarding on their flights to other foreign countries solely on the basis of their U.S. nationality. That is absurd, and should not be allowed. If I've been living in Thailand for the last month, I'm not more likely to have COVID just because I happen to have U.S. citizenship. Also there are currently 1.2 million U.S. passports awaiting issuance with a 3-4 month waiting period due to COVID related staffing reductions, so I'm legitimately trapped in the U.S. until my new renewed passport arrives. I live abroad, so it's not like I'm trapped at home and simply giving up a 2 week holiday.

DamnYuppie 6y ago

So sovereign countries have no right to refuse entry to those who are not their citizens?

closeparen 6y ago
"Sovereign" means they have sufficient force and technical ability, not a moral right.

ciarannolan 6y ago

> Nobody should be trapped in a country, and nobody's movement should be restricted by their nationality. What an absurd sense of entitlement. You're not entitled to travel anywhere on earth despite your utopian dreams.

JSavageOne 6y ago
> What an absurd sense of entitlement. You're not entitled to travel anywhere on earth despite your utopian dreams. How ironic that you're calling me entitled, and then in the same breath you tell me that my freedom of movement must abide by your personal opinions regarding freedom. You'd make a great grunt soldier in the North Korean regime. You can trap your citizens in their country, and tell them they're "entitled" for wanting to leave and pursue their "utopian dreams". What a stupid comment.
- DuskStar 6y ago
  I think no one should be trapped within their country because their country won't let them leave. Being trapped because no one wants to take you is a very different situation.
  - JSavageOne 6y ago
    I don't think anyone should be denied entry to a country if they're willing to undergo a 2 week quarantine at their own expense.
  - bromuro 6y ago
    Well most of the people in the world are locked into their countries. This is just crying for a privilege lost for a short amount of time. Yet for a foreigner must be difficult to be locked in the US. I’d freak out.
- ciarannolan 6y ago
  Ad hominem all you want, but you're playing word games. > How ironic that you're calling me entitled, and then in the same breath you tell me that my freedom of movement must abide by your personal opinions regarding freedom. If not letting certain people into my country, to use my resources, is telling you that you must abide by my "personal opinions regarding freedom", then guilty as charged. Until we receive passport protocols from on high, that's what we're stuck with. It's incredibly entitled to say "gee I feel like living in _____, they must let me do as I please." It's not entitled to say "lol no."
  - JSavageOne 6y ago
    Right so you believe in closed borders, travel bans, visa applications, passports, etc etc. I get it. You'd love Trump. We can disagree on this issue, but don't tell me I'm "entitled" for saying that from a moral perspective, the concept of restricting one's international movement based on their nationality is ridiculous, especially if they don't actually live in their home country anymore. I don't know if you actually read the article, but it is extremely humiliating that the passport lottery giving you a passport from the wrong country makes any attempt to leave your country a nightmare. Hopefully now with COVID more Americans can empathize with this, and we can get rid of this border/via/passport nonsense.
    - ciarannolan 6y ago
      Yes, I believe in "closed borders, travel bans, visa applications, [and] passports [...]". I don't know what else "etc etc" entails though. Is it possible that I believe in those things and find Trump repulsive? Look through my comments and tell me if you think I "love Trump". Another swing and miss at ad hominem instead of a legitimate argument. > We can disagree on this issue, but don't tell me I'm "entitled" for saying that from a moral perspective, the concept of restricting one's international movement based on their nationality is ridiculous, especially if they don't actually live in their home country anymore. I think it's entitlement to believe you are owed access to another person's homeland for no reason other than the fact that you're a person. By what right are you entitled to live in and enjoy the benefits of a country and society that someone else has built? In my opinion you have no natural right to this whatsoever. >[...] we can get rid of this border/via/passport nonsense. Thankfully this will never happen. You can bet the farm on it.

jkingsbery 6y ago

Let me clarify my point: 1. America having a ton of COVID, and people being trapped - definitely a big problem. 2. Americans not able to travel (and most travel is for pleasure) as much as they would like because other countries temporarily won't accept us, in order to limit their own countries' exposure to COVID: not really a problem, and in fact a rational result of an actual problem (see Point 1).

JSavageOne 6y ago
I don't think anyone should be denied entry to a country if they're willing to undergo a 2 week quarantine at their own expense. Banning countries may have made sense in the beginning when COVID was blowing up, we didn't know much about the virus, and healthcare systems weren't prepared, but at this point countries should have their act together (and many like South Korea and Hong Kong have handled it extremely well), and we know that as bad as the virus is, it's magnitudes of order less deadly than we thought. In any case, I've heard of stories of U.S. nationals living abroad being denied boarding on their flights to other foreign countries solely on the basis of their U.S. nationality. That is absurd, and should not be allowed. If I've been living in Thailand for the last month, I'm not more likely to have COVID just because I happen to have U.S. citizenship. Also there are currently 1.2 million U.S. passports awaiting issuance with a 3-4 month waiting period due to COVID related staffing reductions, so I'm legitimately trapped in the U.S. until my new renewed passport arrives. I live abroad, so it's not like I'm trapped at home and simply giving up a 2 week holiday.