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If it makes anyone feel better, most U.S. citizens have _never_ had access to any part of the world because they've been too busy barely making ends meet workin

by ebg13 6y ago

If it makes anyone feel better, most U.S. citizens have _never_ had access to any part of the world because they've been too busy barely making ends meet working dead-end jobs with no healthcare or vacations. So, in the grand scheme of things, is it really so terrible if the middle echelons feel a little squeeze as well as a result of political malfeasance from the people that they (collectively, not individually) put into power?

duxup 6y ago
Yeah this probably seems like a bigger deal to folks who cross international borders (or multiple) regularly. Most Americans do not do that, I wonder what % ever cross an international border... ?
josefresco 6y ago
I hear what you're saying but American's travel more, and spend more on travel than almost any other nation (I just looked it up, URL is in another comment)
- ebg13 6y ago
  America is a very large nation, and it has more people in it than almost any other. It's also, as an aggregate average, wealthier than almost any other nation. And at the same time, most people inside it are not individually wealthy enough to thrive inside it to the extent where they could fly overseas for a while. Per https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-of-americans-who-never-traveled-beyond-the-state-where-they-were-born-a-surprise/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-o... As many as 13 percent say they have never flown in an airplane. Forty percent of those questioned said they’ve never left the country. Over half of respondents have never owned a passport. And that's even with lumping Mexico/Canada into the same group as other continents when they are very dissimilar in terms of travel feasibility. Mexico and Canada get 55% of all international travel from the US. Is that better than an impoverished nation? Absolutely. Does one typically classify the US as an impoverished nation? Not typically.
  - josefresco 6y ago
    The Forbes article, and the data it's based off isn't insightful unless we have something to compare. How much do citizens of other nations travel from region to region within their own country? What about beyond the countries that immediately border their own? If the context is just America yes, you can make the assertion that your typical American doesn't, or can't travel as often as they'd like internationally. However in the context of this discussion I asserted that American's will notice a travel ban, because compared to the rest of the world they travel a lot.
    - ebg13 6y ago
      > I asserted that American's will notice a travel ban A very small percentage of Americans will notice an overseas travel ban right now, given that: 1. Only 20-30% of US citizens have _ever_in_their_lives_ traveled outside of North America. (The percentage of people who have ever left the country X the percentage of non-Mexico/Canada international travel.) 2. There's a global pandemic that the US isn't handling well. People in group 1 are not rushing to rub elbows with strangers in airplanes right now. The only countries that we can unqualifiedly say that "Americans" _may_ notice right now are Canada and Mexico (by car, flying still allowed).

by ebg13 6y ago

duxup 6y ago

Yeah this probably seems like a bigger deal to folks who cross international borders (or multiple) regularly. Most Americans do not do that, I wonder what % ever cross an international border... ?

josefresco 6y ago

I hear what you're saying but American's travel more, and spend more on travel than almost any other nation (I just looked it up, URL is in another comment)

ebg13 6y ago
America is a very large nation, and it has more people in it than almost any other. It's also, as an aggregate average, wealthier than almost any other nation. And at the same time, most people inside it are not individually wealthy enough to thrive inside it to the extent where they could fly overseas for a while. Per https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-of-americans-who-never-traveled-beyond-the-state-where-they-were-born-a-surprise/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-o... As many as 13 percent say they have never flown in an airplane. Forty percent of those questioned said they’ve never left the country. Over half of respondents have never owned a passport. And that's even with lumping Mexico/Canada into the same group as other continents when they are very dissimilar in terms of travel feasibility. Mexico and Canada get 55% of all international travel from the US. Is that better than an impoverished nation? Absolutely. Does one typically classify the US as an impoverished nation? Not typically.
- josefresco 6y ago
  The Forbes article, and the data it's based off isn't insightful unless we have something to compare. How much do citizens of other nations travel from region to region within their own country? What about beyond the countries that immediately border their own? If the context is just America yes, you can make the assertion that your typical American doesn't, or can't travel as often as they'd like internationally. However in the context of this discussion I asserted that American's will notice a travel ban, because compared to the rest of the world they travel a lot.
  - ebg13 6y ago
    > I asserted that American's will notice a travel ban A very small percentage of Americans will notice an overseas travel ban right now, given that: 1. Only 20-30% of US citizens have _ever_in_their_lives_ traveled outside of North America. (The percentage of people who have ever left the country X the percentage of non-Mexico/Canada international travel.) 2. There's a global pandemic that the US isn't handling well. People in group 1 are not rushing to rub elbows with strangers in airplanes right now. The only countries that we can unqualifiedly say that "Americans" _may_ notice right now are Canada and Mexico (by car, flying still allowed).