4 ms·

We're talking about individuals in Congress. They absolutely have the funds necessary to influence their own behavior.

EvanAnderson 6y ago
I definitely disagree about that. Look at how much time a Congressperson spends raising funds. They clearly don't have the funds necessary to influence their own behavior. They seek out donors and act in those donors' interest in legislative matters. (I'm not saying they work exclusively in donors' interest, but it's clear that donors' interests are taken into account.)
- TallGuyShort 6y ago
  I'm also open to donations, but that doesn't mean I don't have enough money to do my job and act with integrity.
  - falcor84 6y ago
    But does keeping your job next year require you to spend more than $1M? And yes, in about 90% of rates in the US, the person who spent more won: https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/winning-vs-spending?cycle=2020 https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/winning-vs-sp...
    - TallGuyShort 6y ago
      I'd prefer it if they had no chance in hell anyway: https://www.termlimits.com/ https://www.termlimits.com/
      - msla 6y ago
        Term limits shift power to lobbying groups and aides who know what the Hell's going on and how to work the system.
        TallGuyShort 6y ago
        So we're back to blaming Disney for the fact that legislators can't be bothered to vote with their conscience?
        msla 6y ago
        No, we're acknowledging that legislating is a skilled job, and that experience counts.
        TallGuyShort 6y ago
        Look at the average tenure of a US legislator, look at Copyright Law in the US, and say that again.
        msla 6y ago
        Sure: Legislators have to prioritize lots of different things, not just copyright terms, and the skill of making deals while operating within the rules and traditions of a legislature is one they must learn on the job. Having a bunch of short-timers wouldn't make copyright law reform any more likely, and it certainly wouldn't make anyone more likely to vote their conscience. Further, copyright law isn't an issue of conscience for most legislators to begin with, no matter how long they've been in office, as most of them, like most of their constituents, don't understand the value of public domain or the importance of shared culture.
- drdeca 6y ago
  Eh? Even if a person would not end up with enough funds to secure re-election if they chose to vote against a measure, does not mean that they don’t have the freedom to vote against it. They are still responsible for their actions even if the alternative actions would be highly against their self-interest. Even a person who is threatened with death if they don’t take an action, is still free to either take or not take the action. They might be justified in taking the action on the basis of said threat, even if the action would ordinarily be forbidden, but they are still making a choice.

I definitely disagree about that. Look at how much time a Congressperson spends raising funds. They clearly don't have the funds necessary to influence their own behavior. They seek out donors and act in those donors' interest in legislative matters. (I'm not saying they work exclusively in donors' interest, but it's clear that donors' interests are taken into account.)

TallGuyShort 6y ago
I'm also open to donations, but that doesn't mean I don't have enough money to do my job and act with integrity.
- falcor84 6y ago
  But does keeping your job next year require you to spend more than $1M? And yes, in about 90% of rates in the US, the person who spent more won: https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/winning-vs-spending?cycle=2020 https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/winning-vs-sp...
  - TallGuyShort 6y ago
    I'd prefer it if they had no chance in hell anyway: https://www.termlimits.com/ https://www.termlimits.com/
    - msla 6y ago
      Term limits shift power to lobbying groups and aides who know what the Hell's going on and how to work the system.
      - TallGuyShort 6y ago
        So we're back to blaming Disney for the fact that legislators can't be bothered to vote with their conscience?
        msla 6y ago
        No, we're acknowledging that legislating is a skilled job, and that experience counts.
        TallGuyShort 6y ago
        Look at the average tenure of a US legislator, look at Copyright Law in the US, and say that again.
        msla 6y ago
        Sure: Legislators have to prioritize lots of different things, not just copyright terms, and the skill of making deals while operating within the rules and traditions of a legislature is one they must learn on the job. Having a bunch of short-timers wouldn't make copyright law reform any more likely, and it certainly wouldn't make anyone more likely to vote their conscience. Further, copyright law isn't an issue of conscience for most legislators to begin with, no matter how long they've been in office, as most of them, like most of their constituents, don't understand the value of public domain or the importance of shared culture.
drdeca 6y ago
Eh? Even if a person would not end up with enough funds to secure re-election if they chose to vote against a measure, does not mean that they don’t have the freedom to vote against it. They are still responsible for their actions even if the alternative actions would be highly against their self-interest. Even a person who is threatened with death if they don’t take an action, is still free to either take or not take the action. They might be justified in taking the action on the basis of said threat, even if the action would ordinarily be forbidden, but they are still making a choice.