4 ms·

I can think of a few reasons not to, as someone who tried to use Linux first when switching away from macOS. The most notable of which is using Linux with a hig

I can think of a few reasons not to, as someone who tried to use Linux first when switching away from macOS. The most notable of which is using Linux with a high-density 4k+ display is nightmarish at best; everything is either too big or too small, and at least in Ubuntu, fractional scaling is too broken to use on a daily basis – also requiring a ton of manual config and tweaking to even get usable. Windows, by contrast, works out of the box really well with HiDPI displays, and generally has a really well-refined experience these days, particularly between WSL2 and the Windows Terminal experience. It's the best of both worlds, without the hassle of dual-boot or manual config, IMO

heavyset_go 6y ago
Fractional scaling on Plasma Desktop works just fine on Ubuntu 20.04. I wouldn't use it if that wasn't the case.
fmakunbound 6y ago
A few Windows HiDPI problems I've experienced with an external 4k display: all the task bar status icons are blurred nearly unrecognizably after a while, Qt-based applications seem to be twice as large (text scale, and widgets) than win32 based ones (sure it's a Qt thing, no Windows), Steam can't figure out where the pointer is after a while (seems to track the pointer as 1/4 of where it is in x/y coordinates), and win32 applications often appear blurred and require some compatibility setting via the .exe file's properties thing which I don't understand because it seems to make no difference. Honestly, Pop_OS! on the same setup is much smoother. Probably something to do with the HiDPI Daemon it has running. The only flawless operating system on this 4k external setup has been macOS. Can't think of any problems and that's my daily system.
- ShamelessC 6y ago
  I've never experienced the issues you describe with status icons or steam having pointer issues except perhaps when changing the DPI settings without logging out and back in. When was the last time you tried it? With regard to Win32 apps appearing blurry, I think that's a fair compromise considering Windows heavy focus on backwards compatibility.
  - sedatk 6y ago
    Same here. I honestly thought they were talking about Linux, not Windows. Windows 4K/HiDPI support is just great with many different compatibility options.
- owenwil 6y ago
  Are you on Windows 10's 2020 release? That doesn't resonate with my experience at all – macOS has been vastly more frustrating to deal with on 4K displays in my experience, constant reflowing and forgetting window states, takes forever to recognize the displays when plugging in or resuming from sleep, etc... I even have all of the pointer and icon problems you describe with the top bar. Sometimes, with a 4K display plugged in, it takes 10+ seconds to figure out how to use it. Meanwhile, none of that on my Windows machine!
  - fmakunbound 6y ago
    > 2020 release? Probably. It's Windows 10 build 2004 or something. The mac I have is mid-2014 w/ Mojave (also Catalina), and I'm using the hdmi out. It seems to remember the display, moves the applications I had on it last time to it, with all the other details like wallpaper scaling settings. It takes maybe 1/2 second to display.
    - owenwil 6y ago
      To be fair that Mac was one of the greatest ever made, haha – I blame most of my issues with all of this on stability issues with the 2019 MBP I'm forced to use for work.
- Joeri 6y ago
  The primary display at login time determines the windows system dpi, so will have apps scaled correctly and if they are dpi aware they will appear sharp. If apps appear wrongly scaled on the primary display at login, they implemented dpi awareness in the wrong way. So, if you make sure the external 4k is primary before you login to windows, you should have a better experience. On other screens with different dpi basically the only apps that look right are the ones using the latest dpi aware api’s.
eropple 6y ago
FWIW, but I've had pretty good results from GNOME fractional scaling since like Fedora 26, across a wide range of hardware. It's not perfect, but it's fine. WSL2 is also great for some use cases, but for anything JVM-based I expect first-class support for JetBrains tooling and that really doesn't work well. Keeps me solidly on a Linux desktop for now.
- m0xte 6y ago
  It was really really really slow when I tried it. My ass end mac mini with 1.5x scaling on a 4k display on macOS is noticeably faster than Fedora on a Ryzen 7 3700X with GTX1660 which lags like hell. Not impressed.
  - eropple 6y ago
    I'd buy performance issues, but on that hardware that surprises me. My desktop was a 2700X with a 980Ti and I didn't notice issues, but it's good to know that that mileage still varies. (Now it's a 3900X with a 2070S and surprise, still none.)
    - vetinari 6y ago
      It doesn't surprise me. It is Nvidia. Nvidia doesn't run Wayland. Of course your HiDPI experience will be bad. Here, 4k with Vega and Mutter/Wayland is flawless.
      - m0xte 6y ago
        That makes sense then.
TomMarius 6y ago
I tried Kubuntu with KDE (on Macbook 2015) and am amazed at how good and polished it is, even compared to later versions of macOS. Fractional scaling works perfectly, even on NVidia cards (my desktop). Even the Windows issues with HiDPI are non existent on Kubuntu. Really a good OS.
- owenwil 6y ago
  A MacBook Pro doesn't have a HighDPI 4K display, which is where it falls apart. Indeed, it works fine on a MacBook because Retina is not the same thing! :)
  - TomMarius 6y ago
    I also have a computer with NVidia gpu (which turns fractional scaling into an unresolvable problem on Gnome currently, that's why I tried Kubuntu in the first place) and 28" 4K display running Kubuntu and use the display with the Macbook too. Works flawlessly.
SweetestRug 6y ago
Running Manjaro Gnome on a 4K display; it works perfectly without any of the problems you describe. You might want to give Linux a chance again.
- owenwil 6y ago
  Last time I did it was February, and it was just as problematic back then – I'm not sure what advantage it offers over WSL2 (which is containerized) when combined with all of the benefits of Windows these days, for the hassle.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    Windows containers aren't the same as Linux containers, as Windows containers run via Hyper-V, and Linux runs container processes natively.
  - qalmakka 6y ago
    After you start understanding how the system works, you can do things that are simply not possible with Windows. WSL2 is nice, but it's always still a VM. You don't have the flexibility of running a full Linux distro on real hardware. For instance, I made a portable work environment that boots straight from an SSD in a USB 3.1 case; it is fully encrypted, and it boots the same on every single machine under the sun. I can even quickly boot it in a VM using QEMU. I personally use pretty much all the major OSes, and I think each one has its ups and down. I still think that Linux can potentially offer a much leaner and snappier experience than the other OS, because you can actually control what goes into your system and what runs and when. I also think that "easy" operating systems (and with them I also group distributions such as Ubuntu and similar) tend to give more advanced users an illusion of reliability that then sorely bites you in the back as soon as something goes awry. A few weeks ago I lost hours trying to understand why Windows was refusing to update to 2004, because Microsoft has hidden every single detail of how the system works away from the user. I think that many people don't really know how to properly administer Windows systems, and that when things go south you still need to know what to do just like with every other OS.
EspadaV9 6y ago
Counterpoint, I've been running 4k screens with various scaling (27", 28" and now 43") with kubuntu and now fedora for over 3 years without any issues, using both Intel or AMD cards.

heavyset_go 6y ago

Fractional scaling on Plasma Desktop works just fine on Ubuntu 20.04. I wouldn't use it if that wasn't the case.

fmakunbound 6y ago

A few Windows HiDPI problems I've experienced with an external 4k display: all the task bar status icons are blurred nearly unrecognizably after a while, Qt-based applications seem to be twice as large (text scale, and widgets) than win32 based ones (sure it's a Qt thing, no Windows), Steam can't figure out where the pointer is after a while (seems to track the pointer as 1/4 of where it is in x/y coordinates), and win32 applications often appear blurred and require some compatibility setting via the .exe file's properties thing which I don't understand because it seems to make no difference. Honestly, Pop_OS! on the same setup is much smoother. Probably something to do with the HiDPI Daemon it has running. The only flawless operating system on this 4k external setup has been macOS. Can't think of any problems and that's my daily system.

ShamelessC 6y ago
I've never experienced the issues you describe with status icons or steam having pointer issues except perhaps when changing the DPI settings without logging out and back in. When was the last time you tried it? With regard to Win32 apps appearing blurry, I think that's a fair compromise considering Windows heavy focus on backwards compatibility.
- sedatk 6y ago
  Same here. I honestly thought they were talking about Linux, not Windows. Windows 4K/HiDPI support is just great with many different compatibility options.
owenwil 6y ago
Are you on Windows 10's 2020 release? That doesn't resonate with my experience at all – macOS has been vastly more frustrating to deal with on 4K displays in my experience, constant reflowing and forgetting window states, takes forever to recognize the displays when plugging in or resuming from sleep, etc... I even have all of the pointer and icon problems you describe with the top bar. Sometimes, with a 4K display plugged in, it takes 10+ seconds to figure out how to use it. Meanwhile, none of that on my Windows machine!
- fmakunbound 6y ago
  > 2020 release? Probably. It's Windows 10 build 2004 or something. The mac I have is mid-2014 w/ Mojave (also Catalina), and I'm using the hdmi out. It seems to remember the display, moves the applications I had on it last time to it, with all the other details like wallpaper scaling settings. It takes maybe 1/2 second to display.
  - owenwil 6y ago
    To be fair that Mac was one of the greatest ever made, haha – I blame most of my issues with all of this on stability issues with the 2019 MBP I'm forced to use for work.
Joeri 6y ago
The primary display at login time determines the windows system dpi, so will have apps scaled correctly and if they are dpi aware they will appear sharp. If apps appear wrongly scaled on the primary display at login, they implemented dpi awareness in the wrong way. So, if you make sure the external 4k is primary before you login to windows, you should have a better experience. On other screens with different dpi basically the only apps that look right are the ones using the latest dpi aware api’s.

eropple 6y ago

FWIW, but I've had pretty good results from GNOME fractional scaling since like Fedora 26, across a wide range of hardware. It's not perfect, but it's fine. WSL2 is also great for some use cases, but for anything JVM-based I expect first-class support for JetBrains tooling and that really doesn't work well. Keeps me solidly on a Linux desktop for now.

m0xte 6y ago
It was really really really slow when I tried it. My ass end mac mini with 1.5x scaling on a 4k display on macOS is noticeably faster than Fedora on a Ryzen 7 3700X with GTX1660 which lags like hell. Not impressed.
- eropple 6y ago
  I'd buy performance issues, but on that hardware that surprises me. My desktop was a 2700X with a 980Ti and I didn't notice issues, but it's good to know that that mileage still varies. (Now it's a 3900X with a 2070S and surprise, still none.)
  - vetinari 6y ago
    It doesn't surprise me. It is Nvidia. Nvidia doesn't run Wayland. Of course your HiDPI experience will be bad. Here, 4k with Vega and Mutter/Wayland is flawless.
    - m0xte 6y ago
      That makes sense then.

TomMarius 6y ago

I tried Kubuntu with KDE (on Macbook 2015) and am amazed at how good and polished it is, even compared to later versions of macOS. Fractional scaling works perfectly, even on NVidia cards (my desktop). Even the Windows issues with HiDPI are non existent on Kubuntu. Really a good OS.

owenwil 6y ago
A MacBook Pro doesn't have a HighDPI 4K display, which is where it falls apart. Indeed, it works fine on a MacBook because Retina is not the same thing! :)
- TomMarius 6y ago
  I also have a computer with NVidia gpu (which turns fractional scaling into an unresolvable problem on Gnome currently, that's why I tried Kubuntu in the first place) and 28" 4K display running Kubuntu and use the display with the Macbook too. Works flawlessly.

SweetestRug 6y ago

Running Manjaro Gnome on a 4K display; it works perfectly without any of the problems you describe. You might want to give Linux a chance again.

owenwil 6y ago
Last time I did it was February, and it was just as problematic back then – I'm not sure what advantage it offers over WSL2 (which is containerized) when combined with all of the benefits of Windows these days, for the hassle.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  Windows containers aren't the same as Linux containers, as Windows containers run via Hyper-V, and Linux runs container processes natively.
- qalmakka 6y ago
  After you start understanding how the system works, you can do things that are simply not possible with Windows. WSL2 is nice, but it's always still a VM. You don't have the flexibility of running a full Linux distro on real hardware. For instance, I made a portable work environment that boots straight from an SSD in a USB 3.1 case; it is fully encrypted, and it boots the same on every single machine under the sun. I can even quickly boot it in a VM using QEMU. I personally use pretty much all the major OSes, and I think each one has its ups and down. I still think that Linux can potentially offer a much leaner and snappier experience than the other OS, because you can actually control what goes into your system and what runs and when. I also think that "easy" operating systems (and with them I also group distributions such as Ubuntu and similar) tend to give more advanced users an illusion of reliability that then sorely bites you in the back as soon as something goes awry. A few weeks ago I lost hours trying to understand why Windows was refusing to update to 2004, because Microsoft has hidden every single detail of how the system works away from the user. I think that many people don't really know how to properly administer Windows systems, and that when things go south you still need to know what to do just like with every other OS.

EspadaV9 6y ago

Counterpoint, I've been running 4k screens with various scaling (27", 28" and now 43") with kubuntu and now fedora for over 3 years without any issues, using both Intel or AMD cards.