5 ms·

That you had to go back to the 60s and 70s to make your point demonstrates how out of the ordinary these "mostly peaceful" protests are.

dredmorbius 6y ago
There are more recent examples, I'm sure you could find several on a few minutes' search. A common element to many is protest not simply of some policy or political issue, but where the aggrieved group is seen by The System as non-persons, and the protest is aimed at the system itself. Most especially at how The System exerts its will, which is to say, through police forces, courts, and corrections. When the institutions of law and order themselves are questioned, common ground is thin, and dialogue gives way to protest, suppression, and violence. The wave of George Floyd protests in 2020 is a continuation of the Black Lives Matter movement in 2013, itself evolving from the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, with its own history of violent outbursts in every decade since, many provoked by police brutality against minorities. The principle distinguishing characteristic of the current protests in Portland, Seattle, New York, Chicago, and elsewhere is that the movement has general support well outside specific oppressed populations.
- jeffreyrogers 6y ago
  I'm not aware of any recent protests (e.g. last 10 years) in the US having the level of violence of these protests[0]. You don't seem to be aware of any either, since you haven't provided any examples, despite telling me how easily they could be found. [0]: Which include over $500m in damages: https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/11/federal-government-denies-minnesotas-request-for-aid-to-clean-up-rebuild-in-twin-cities https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/11/federal-government-..., and that is just in one state. So the total is likely billions across the entire US.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    One readily findable list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unr... There are 35 incidents listed from 2010--2020, inclusive. Another 25 dating to 1990, which for some of us is still recent history. Damages for numerous events (in 2020 dollars) is in at least the $1s to $10s of millions of dollars range. Even the quiescent 1980s sees 8 entries, down from 35 in the 1970s and over 65 listed for the 1960s, suggesting relatively little presentism bias. Going back further, one finds the behaviour throughout US history, though with some decades standing out especially. The 1860s & 1870s, 1910s & 1920s (often white-on-black violence, including but scarcely limited to the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921, but also other immigrant and anti-union violence). The majority of the events from the 20th century onwards, but especially since 1990, are tied either to racial protest or incidents of police brutality or killing, Numerous others to white-nationalist or similar majority-induced violence. Sufficiently aware?
    - jeffreyrogers 6y ago
      I've already seen that list. Here's the question I posed. > What other protests have anywhere near this much violence? The recent protests/riots have caused at least $500m dollars in damage per Minnesota's own claims. And substantially more if you include everything across the nation. There have also been at least 15 deaths as a result of the riots. So I pose the question again, what other recent protests have caused anywhere near this amount of violence? From what you have provided, none. Almost no deaths and about a 100th of the property damages. Nothing you provided comes close.

dredmorbius 6y ago

There are more recent examples, I'm sure you could find several on a few minutes' search. A common element to many is protest not simply of some policy or political issue, but where the aggrieved group is seen by The System as non-persons, and the protest is aimed at the system itself. Most especially at how The System exerts its will, which is to say, through police forces, courts, and corrections. When the institutions of law and order themselves are questioned, common ground is thin, and dialogue gives way to protest, suppression, and violence. The wave of George Floyd protests in 2020 is a continuation of the Black Lives Matter movement in 2013, itself evolving from the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, with its own history of violent outbursts in every decade since, many provoked by police brutality against minorities. The principle distinguishing characteristic of the current protests in Portland, Seattle, New York, Chicago, and elsewhere is that the movement has general support well outside specific oppressed populations.

jeffreyrogers 6y ago
I'm not aware of any recent protests (e.g. last 10 years) in the US having the level of violence of these protests[0]. You don't seem to be aware of any either, since you haven't provided any examples, despite telling me how easily they could be found. [0]: Which include over $500m in damages: https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/11/federal-government-denies-minnesotas-request-for-aid-to-clean-up-rebuild-in-twin-cities https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/11/federal-government-..., and that is just in one state. So the total is likely billions across the entire US.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  One readily findable list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unr... There are 35 incidents listed from 2010--2020, inclusive. Another 25 dating to 1990, which for some of us is still recent history. Damages for numerous events (in 2020 dollars) is in at least the $1s to $10s of millions of dollars range. Even the quiescent 1980s sees 8 entries, down from 35 in the 1970s and over 65 listed for the 1960s, suggesting relatively little presentism bias. Going back further, one finds the behaviour throughout US history, though with some decades standing out especially. The 1860s & 1870s, 1910s & 1920s (often white-on-black violence, including but scarcely limited to the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921, but also other immigrant and anti-union violence). The majority of the events from the 20th century onwards, but especially since 1990, are tied either to racial protest or incidents of police brutality or killing, Numerous others to white-nationalist or similar majority-induced violence. Sufficiently aware?
  - jeffreyrogers 6y ago
    I've already seen that list. Here's the question I posed. > What other protests have anywhere near this much violence? The recent protests/riots have caused at least $500m dollars in damage per Minnesota's own claims. And substantially more if you include everything across the nation. There have also been at least 15 deaths as a result of the riots. So I pose the question again, what other recent protests have caused anywhere near this amount of violence? From what you have provided, none. Almost no deaths and about a 100th of the property damages. Nothing you provided comes close.