10 ms·

“Could” is a pretty important word here. This estimate is from a survey of how people feel about their ability to pay rent. It’s not an actual estimate of the n

by cwhiz 6y ago

“Could” is a pretty important word here. This estimate is from a survey of how people feel about their ability to pay rent. It’s not an actual estimate of the number of distressed tenants or the number of landlords looking to evict. I would imagine there is plenty of uncertainty at the moment due to Congress being completely dysfunctional. But let’s say they pass an unemployment extension and send out another round of stimulus checks. What’s the next survey going to look like?

koheripbal 6y ago
As a landlord, I'm sure some of our tenants _feel_ like they might get evicted, but the reality is that we aren't processing almost any evictions at the moment. We have to maintain the same tough processes (threatening letters, late fees, etc) on rent collection because we have no way of knowing who can/can't afford it right now.
- ISL 6y ago
  Is this truly the optimal process? One might be able to find a way to inquire about tenants' financial stability. Tough policies, without intent to follow-through seems a little like bullying/extortion. Finding a way to work with tenants seems like an opportunity for a win-win. Deferring partial rent payments should see some uptake among those who will find work when the country finds a way to right the ship. If you have good tenants whom you want to keep, keeping them may take work and discounts. I have colleagues who are working/schooling from home who have opted not to renew their expensive urban leases for the coming year. I suspect they would have renewed at a temporarily-discounted rate.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    Most small time landlords like me cannot implement an that process because we have kids at home, mortgages, and also full time jobs, in addition to all the same pandemic problems everyone else has. I do not have the time to vet the financial situation of every tenant, even if I could assume they provided honest data. Moreover, most are working from home and still able to pay full rent - so the danger is having word spread that I'm giving out discounts. For me, the more efficient process is actually to pressure non-payers to leave and just accept lower rents on incoming tenants. I'm not saying that's the best ethical way to handle it, but it is the most cost and time efficient method - given my limited resources.
    - craftinator 6y ago
      I appreciate the honest breakdown on strategy here. It's interesting that this is the economically correct solution to this problem. We all know that evictions happen, and it's frustrating that 99% of the time they happen to people who really, really need them not to happen; but this is how the US is structured.
    - wasdfff 6y ago
      Surely it wouldnt be hard to get this data. Every apartment I’ve lived in ran a credit check and asked for months of paystubs, bank statements, any verification of income at all.
    - jhayward 6y ago
      This is what a completely immoral capitalist sounds like. Is it impossible for the owner to reach out to tenants? Ask them how they are doing and what their payment prospects are? If true stress is indicated (it will be obvious which are really in dire straights), work with those tenants on plans to help them land as softly as possible? Rather than just terrorize them into crawling away, more injured by their association with you than they had to be. As written, the comment is completely unsupportable.
      - koheripbal 6y ago
        When I took over this building, the prior landlord had developed cancer a year earlier and was on chemo. One of the tenants found out, and spread the word to all the other tenants - and encouraged all of them to stop paying rent. A little over half of them stopped paying an elderly man rent while he was in the hospital having chemo. That meant that he couldn't pay the mortgage on the building and was forced to sell it. That is what it's like being a landlord. You should try it and your opinion on "evil capitalists" will quickly change from your current twelve year old's perspective.
    - mac01021 6y ago
      How many rental units does a typical "small time" landlord have?
dividedbyzero 6y ago
Despite the uncertainty, just that the current pandemic can drive a country so extremely wealthy as the US to a point where such a humanitarian crisis on US soil is a somewhat realistic possibility, it's crazy. 11 million households, what a number. After all, in the larger context, this pandemic is pretty benign among disasters of that magnitude. History is riddled with cataclysms – decades-long droughts over whole continents? Been there, bought the studded leather shirt, got murdered by Mongols. The Black Death, Mount Tambora, a Carrington Event in modern times, Tunguska (but larger), ... This sort of thing has happened lots and lots of times and will happen again. If anything, our recent past has been extraordinarily calm. If it turns out the US government can't keep, something like a tenth of the population? in secure housing during this, good luck with climate change, good luck with the next big one that maybe won't be so benign. This is deeply disconcerting.
- thu2111 6y ago
  The virus is indeed pretty benign compared to many other disasters. Very benign when you take into account the various statistical distortions e.g. most COVID deaths being more like "tested positive at time of death" rather than actual additive deaths. But the over-reaction to it is on an ahistoric scale. It's quite cataclysmic. You've had people pulling their own teeth out with pliers because the dentists were all closed [1], you have people being locked in their homes for weeks or even months without being able to go outside [2], people being welded inside buildings [3], you have half of all restaurants on Yelp permanently closing [4], you have the elderly being abandoned in care homes to die [5] [6] So whilst I agree diseases have happened before, the kind of global end-of-days mentality we're seeing here is extremely rare. It's not driven by the actual facts of the virus, there's something else at work. [1] https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/people-are-pulling-their-own-teeth-with-dentists-on-lockdown/ https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/people-are-pulling-their-own-t... [2] https://www.abc.es/sociedad/abci-hombre-permanece-aislado-italia-tras-17-test-positivos-covid-19-202007231415_noticia.html https://www.abc.es/sociedad/abci-hombre-permanece-aislado-it... [3] https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/coronavirus-residents-welded-inside-their-own-home/ https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/coronavirus-residents-welded-insi... [4] https://mashable.com/article/yelp-restaurants-temporary-permanent-closures/?europe=true https://mashable.com/article/yelp-restaurants-temporary-perm... [5] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52014023 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52014023 [6] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/26/canada-care-homes-military-report-coronavirus https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/26/canada-care-ho...
mnm1 6y ago
This should have happened already. Checks have already stopped. Even if they do this now, plenty of people will still get evicted without the extra income or eviction protection. The irresponsibility of waiting on a coronavirus relief bill two months in the middle of a pandemic is almost unbelievable. But then I remember the scum who insisted on waiting. Also, they won't pass another bill to provide people with what they need. That's almost certain. Or they would have done so these last two months.

by cwhiz 6y ago

koheripbal 6y ago

As a landlord, I'm sure some of our tenants _feel_ like they might get evicted, but the reality is that we aren't processing almost any evictions at the moment. We have to maintain the same tough processes (threatening letters, late fees, etc) on rent collection because we have no way of knowing who can/can't afford it right now.

ISL 6y ago
Is this truly the optimal process? One might be able to find a way to inquire about tenants' financial stability. Tough policies, without intent to follow-through seems a little like bullying/extortion. Finding a way to work with tenants seems like an opportunity for a win-win. Deferring partial rent payments should see some uptake among those who will find work when the country finds a way to right the ship. If you have good tenants whom you want to keep, keeping them may take work and discounts. I have colleagues who are working/schooling from home who have opted not to renew their expensive urban leases for the coming year. I suspect they would have renewed at a temporarily-discounted rate.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  Most small time landlords like me cannot implement an that process because we have kids at home, mortgages, and also full time jobs, in addition to all the same pandemic problems everyone else has. I do not have the time to vet the financial situation of every tenant, even if I could assume they provided honest data. Moreover, most are working from home and still able to pay full rent - so the danger is having word spread that I'm giving out discounts. For me, the more efficient process is actually to pressure non-payers to leave and just accept lower rents on incoming tenants. I'm not saying that's the best ethical way to handle it, but it is the most cost and time efficient method - given my limited resources.
  - craftinator 6y ago
    I appreciate the honest breakdown on strategy here. It's interesting that this is the economically correct solution to this problem. We all know that evictions happen, and it's frustrating that 99% of the time they happen to people who really, really need them not to happen; but this is how the US is structured.
  - wasdfff 6y ago
    Surely it wouldnt be hard to get this data. Every apartment I’ve lived in ran a credit check and asked for months of paystubs, bank statements, any verification of income at all.
  - jhayward 6y ago
    This is what a completely immoral capitalist sounds like. Is it impossible for the owner to reach out to tenants? Ask them how they are doing and what their payment prospects are? If true stress is indicated (it will be obvious which are really in dire straights), work with those tenants on plans to help them land as softly as possible? Rather than just terrorize them into crawling away, more injured by their association with you than they had to be. As written, the comment is completely unsupportable.
    - koheripbal 6y ago
      When I took over this building, the prior landlord had developed cancer a year earlier and was on chemo. One of the tenants found out, and spread the word to all the other tenants - and encouraged all of them to stop paying rent. A little over half of them stopped paying an elderly man rent while he was in the hospital having chemo. That meant that he couldn't pay the mortgage on the building and was forced to sell it. That is what it's like being a landlord. You should try it and your opinion on "evil capitalists" will quickly change from your current twelve year old's perspective.
  - mac01021 6y ago
    How many rental units does a typical "small time" landlord have?

dividedbyzero 6y ago

Despite the uncertainty, just that the current pandemic can drive a country so extremely wealthy as the US to a point where such a humanitarian crisis on US soil is a somewhat realistic possibility, it's crazy. 11 million households, what a number. After all, in the larger context, this pandemic is pretty benign among disasters of that magnitude. History is riddled with cataclysms – decades-long droughts over whole continents? Been there, bought the studded leather shirt, got murdered by Mongols. The Black Death, Mount Tambora, a Carrington Event in modern times, Tunguska (but larger), ... This sort of thing has happened lots and lots of times and will happen again. If anything, our recent past has been extraordinarily calm. If it turns out the US government can't keep, something like a tenth of the population? in secure housing during this, good luck with climate change, good luck with the next big one that maybe won't be so benign. This is deeply disconcerting.

thu2111 6y ago
The virus is indeed pretty benign compared to many other disasters. Very benign when you take into account the various statistical distortions e.g. most COVID deaths being more like "tested positive at time of death" rather than actual additive deaths. But the over-reaction to it is on an ahistoric scale. It's quite cataclysmic. You've had people pulling their own teeth out with pliers because the dentists were all closed [1], you have people being locked in their homes for weeks or even months without being able to go outside [2], people being welded inside buildings [3], you have half of all restaurants on Yelp permanently closing [4], you have the elderly being abandoned in care homes to die [5] [6] So whilst I agree diseases have happened before, the kind of global end-of-days mentality we're seeing here is extremely rare. It's not driven by the actual facts of the virus, there's something else at work. [1] https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/people-are-pulling-their-own-teeth-with-dentists-on-lockdown/ https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/people-are-pulling-their-own-t... [2] https://www.abc.es/sociedad/abci-hombre-permanece-aislado-italia-tras-17-test-positivos-covid-19-202007231415_noticia.html https://www.abc.es/sociedad/abci-hombre-permanece-aislado-it... [3] https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/coronavirus-residents-welded-inside-their-own-home/ https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/coronavirus-residents-welded-insi... [4] https://mashable.com/article/yelp-restaurants-temporary-permanent-closures/?europe=true https://mashable.com/article/yelp-restaurants-temporary-perm... [5] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52014023 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52014023 [6] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/26/canada-care-homes-military-report-coronavirus https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/26/canada-care-ho...

mnm1 6y ago

This should have happened already. Checks have already stopped. Even if they do this now, plenty of people will still get evicted without the extra income or eviction protection. The irresponsibility of waiting on a coronavirus relief bill two months in the middle of a pandemic is almost unbelievable. But then I remember the scum who insisted on waiting. Also, they won't pass another bill to provide people with what they need. That's almost certain. Or they would have done so these last two months.