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which then begs the question: if you spent your whole life working more, and focusing on getting more money, assuming that you can retire in your 50s, can you R

which then begs the question: if you spent your whole life working more, and focusing on getting more money, assuming that you can retire in your 50s, can you REALLY stop working? or will you depress yourself because there's nothing else to do? retiring early seems great on paper, but at what cost?

TrackerFF 6y ago
Yes, it depends on work and what type you are. I've talked with lots of older colleagues that dread retirement, mostly because they enjoy work and they also enjoy the people they work with. Some people will do just fine with their hobbies and projects, others will have a hard time adapting - many even coming out of retirement, due to boredom. Really depends on the individual. One thing I've heard a lot, from older colleagues, is that people tend to become mentally dull once they go into retirement - at least on the skills they used daily at work. You need to be pretty disciplined and motivated to maintain your skills at a professional level, once there's no hurry or pressure to deliver anything. Days turn into weeks, weeks into months, months into years - before you know it, you've spent a couple of years of your retirement just chilling around.
Viliam1234 6y ago
also, can you really stop working in your 50s when the health problems come and you realize you now need your employer for the health insurance?
- mgkimsal 6y ago
  or you can buy it yourself. budget for it like any other expense. it's not necessarily cheap, but it's not something so astronomical that no one can afford it at all. Many people somehow find $700/month for their favorite SUV, but $700/month for health insurance is unattainable. I'm not saying the system is great - I'm in favor of single-payer system overall. But tying access to health insurance to employment as a default mindset really has to be stopped, somehow.
  - electricviolet 6y ago
    Most of the people for whom $700/month for health insurance is unattainable are not spending $700/month on car payments. There's bound to be some overlap, sure, but let's keep the focus on the fact that expecting everyone to pay $700/month in order to not go bankrupt from health expenses is insane.
    - missedthecue 6y ago
      Isn't the average monthly payment in germany over $800?
      - ratww 6y ago
        National average is around 3800. Minimum is 1584, I think.
      - Xylakant 6y ago
        The maximum monthly payment you can have for german public health insurance is 14.6% of 4.687,50 EUR per month in 2020 - that's about 800USD. Mind you, maximum, not average. 14.6% of your wage is the health insurance deductible, 4.687,50 EUR is the so-called "Beitragsbemessungsgrenze", that is the cap from which on your wage is free - it's regularly adjusted (upwards usually). You can reach that maximum if you are self employed and voluntarily member of the public health insurance - meaning you have to pay both the employers and the employees share. If you're employed, your employer pays about half of it. Your chosen health insurance can optionally add an extra fee, usually less than a percent or two, most are free.
        mgkimsal 6y ago
        How does this work if you're unemployed? Is there a separate public option? Or do you just keep on with whatever you may have had before, without paying? Also, that "maximum/wage" thing - is that per person, or for a household (spouse/kids/etc)?
        6y ago
elindbe2 6y ago
That seems overly dramatic. Yes, you can retire in your 50s (or 30s-40s with a good paying job) and stop working. There is always plenty to do in this great wide world that we live in if you have even a modicum of imagination.
- bronco21016 6y ago
  Yet going on the FIRE or fatFIRE (financial independence, retire early) forums you encounter countless examples of people who achieve early retirement and lose their minds. They’re bored because they worked so hard and no longer know what to do with themselves. They didn’t spend any time developing other interests or hobbies because they were engrossed in chasing the paycheck. Some are so engrossed in chasing the money that they don’t even stop to consider what they MIGHT do if they retire early.
  - r-s 6y ago
    I rarely seem to see that on the FIRE forums. It seems like 99% of people on those forums are trying to achieve FIRE, and very little discussion about those who have.
  - sacred_numbers 6y ago
    I think that might be confirmation bias. The people who happily retire and have the freedom to do whatever they want are less likely to talk about it on a forum; they'll just go live their lives. Conversely, if a person banks all of their happiness on retiring early and then is unhappy they are more likely to talk about it on a forum. It's a similar phenomenon to the prevalence of negative reviews outweighing positive reviews.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    Here's an option: keep working, but without any of the stress associated with needing to work. This isn't rocket science, workaholics.
  - elindbe2 6y ago
    Having spent much time there I've encountered plenty of people who haven't been bored in retirement. That's the beauty of being FI anyways, if you want to work then work. If you don't want to work then don't work. Simple as that.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

TrackerFF 6y ago

Yes, it depends on work and what type you are. I've talked with lots of older colleagues that dread retirement, mostly because they enjoy work and they also enjoy the people they work with. Some people will do just fine with their hobbies and projects, others will have a hard time adapting - many even coming out of retirement, due to boredom. Really depends on the individual. One thing I've heard a lot, from older colleagues, is that people tend to become mentally dull once they go into retirement - at least on the skills they used daily at work. You need to be pretty disciplined and motivated to maintain your skills at a professional level, once there's no hurry or pressure to deliver anything. Days turn into weeks, weeks into months, months into years - before you know it, you've spent a couple of years of your retirement just chilling around.

Viliam1234 6y ago

also, can you really stop working in your 50s when the health problems come and you realize you now need your employer for the health insurance?

mgkimsal 6y ago
or you can buy it yourself. budget for it like any other expense. it's not necessarily cheap, but it's not something so astronomical that no one can afford it at all. Many people somehow find $700/month for their favorite SUV, but $700/month for health insurance is unattainable. I'm not saying the system is great - I'm in favor of single-payer system overall. But tying access to health insurance to employment as a default mindset really has to be stopped, somehow.
- electricviolet 6y ago
  Most of the people for whom $700/month for health insurance is unattainable are not spending $700/month on car payments. There's bound to be some overlap, sure, but let's keep the focus on the fact that expecting everyone to pay $700/month in order to not go bankrupt from health expenses is insane.
  - missedthecue 6y ago
    Isn't the average monthly payment in germany over $800?
    - ratww 6y ago
      National average is around 3800. Minimum is 1584, I think.
    - Xylakant 6y ago
      The maximum monthly payment you can have for german public health insurance is 14.6% of 4.687,50 EUR per month in 2020 - that's about 800USD. Mind you, maximum, not average. 14.6% of your wage is the health insurance deductible, 4.687,50 EUR is the so-called "Beitragsbemessungsgrenze", that is the cap from which on your wage is free - it's regularly adjusted (upwards usually). You can reach that maximum if you are self employed and voluntarily member of the public health insurance - meaning you have to pay both the employers and the employees share. If you're employed, your employer pays about half of it. Your chosen health insurance can optionally add an extra fee, usually less than a percent or two, most are free.
      - mgkimsal 6y ago
        How does this work if you're unemployed? Is there a separate public option? Or do you just keep on with whatever you may have had before, without paying? Also, that "maximum/wage" thing - is that per person, or for a household (spouse/kids/etc)?
        6y ago

elindbe2 6y ago

That seems overly dramatic. Yes, you can retire in your 50s (or 30s-40s with a good paying job) and stop working. There is always plenty to do in this great wide world that we live in if you have even a modicum of imagination.

bronco21016 6y ago
Yet going on the FIRE or fatFIRE (financial independence, retire early) forums you encounter countless examples of people who achieve early retirement and lose their minds. They’re bored because they worked so hard and no longer know what to do with themselves. They didn’t spend any time developing other interests or hobbies because they were engrossed in chasing the paycheck. Some are so engrossed in chasing the money that they don’t even stop to consider what they MIGHT do if they retire early.
- r-s 6y ago
  I rarely seem to see that on the FIRE forums. It seems like 99% of people on those forums are trying to achieve FIRE, and very little discussion about those who have.
- sacred_numbers 6y ago
  I think that might be confirmation bias. The people who happily retire and have the freedom to do whatever they want are less likely to talk about it on a forum; they'll just go live their lives. Conversely, if a person banks all of their happiness on retiring early and then is unhappy they are more likely to talk about it on a forum. It's a similar phenomenon to the prevalence of negative reviews outweighing positive reviews.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  Here's an option: keep working, but without any of the stress associated with needing to work. This isn't rocket science, workaholics.
- elindbe2 6y ago
  Having spent much time there I've encountered plenty of people who haven't been bored in retirement. That's the beauty of being FI anyways, if you want to work then work. If you don't want to work then don't work. Simple as that.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]