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Then this foreign company shouldn't do business in the EU. It's similar to those US laws they want to apply to the rest of the world

by wdb 6y ago

jariel 6y ago
500 Million Europeans would beg to differ. By and large, everyone understands the trade off they are making (i.e. FB can put ads in your stream) for a free Social Networking service, and it's fine.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  Facebook is doing a bit more than showing ads. They are tracking people over the web, deciding the information stream for many, collecting a huge amount of data, helping to spread fake news, and helped to get someone stupid elected as the leader of the world biggest power.
- piva00 6y ago
  Nope, I wouldn't beg to differ so don't put your words in my mouth. And nope, by and large the majority of non-tech savvy people don't understand the trade off they are making. I've done research for data privacy advocacy here in Sweden, in Germany and Norway and the vast majority of people have no idea about the kind of data that FB, Google, etc., are able to collect about you, across the web or your phone and so on. People are in the dark about this, they have a vague notion that "oh, they collect my data" but they have no idea about the implications of this, so no, it's not fine when your business model depends on the ignorance of people to thrive... That's exploiting, not business.
  - jariel 6y ago
    500 Million Europeans are not stupid, and they know what is going on: they see the ads right in front of them and are aware there is some degree of targeting going on. The mechanism of this targeting is not some complicated dark secret - it's literally available to 7 billion people to see any time. It's right there: location, demographic and basic interest targeting. Data is not being sold to anyone, and advertisers can place ads based on a few simple things. There's nothing remotely nefarious. People around the world 100% make the choice to use Facebook with this understanding, it's literally free, and there is no compulsion to use it. If you use Facebook, then you have made the choice, nobody is putting words in your mouth, your assertion is a function of your actions, not my words. If Facebook was leaking data, selling data etc. there would be a problem. But they aren't, so there isn't.
    - piva00 6y ago
      I'm saying that you are wrong given that I worked with data privacy advocacy groups in 3 countries in Europe where one of the researches was exactly to gauge how much the average internet user knows about how their data is collected, used and cross-referenced between multiple parties. You are building the strawman that because people know about data collection they aren't stupid, I never said they are stupid, I'm saying that the way this data is collected and used is so obfuscated from the general public that it's akin to exploiting a whole populace ignorance as a business model. > People around the world 100% make the choice to use Facebook with this understanding, it's literally free, and there is no compulsion to use it. This is patently false, not sure if you like hyperboles or if you are just that ignorant about the knowledge of the rest of the people in the world that doesn't live on Hacker News and breath tech...
- wdb 6y ago
  Sure, but I am not talking about their users but the company itself. If it doesn't want to follow EU law while doing business in the EU, I think they should not business here... Similarly, to how some news sites in the US block EU ip address so they don't need to comply with GDPR. I am quite happy that EU tries to protect the privacy of its citizens. I would be delighted if the US and other countries would follow suit.

Then this foreign company shouldn't do business in the EU. It's similar to those US laws they want to apply to the rest of the world

by wdb 6y ago

Then this foreign company shouldn't do business in the EU. It's similar to those US laws they want to apply to the rest of the world

jariel 6y ago

500 Million Europeans would beg to differ. By and large, everyone understands the trade off they are making (i.e. FB can put ads in your stream) for a free Social Networking service, and it's fine.

speedgoose 6y ago
Facebook is doing a bit more than showing ads. They are tracking people over the web, deciding the information stream for many, collecting a huge amount of data, helping to spread fake news, and helped to get someone stupid elected as the leader of the world biggest power.
piva00 6y ago
Nope, I wouldn't beg to differ so don't put your words in my mouth. And nope, by and large the majority of non-tech savvy people don't understand the trade off they are making. I've done research for data privacy advocacy here in Sweden, in Germany and Norway and the vast majority of people have no idea about the kind of data that FB, Google, etc., are able to collect about you, across the web or your phone and so on. People are in the dark about this, they have a vague notion that "oh, they collect my data" but they have no idea about the implications of this, so no, it's not fine when your business model depends on the ignorance of people to thrive... That's exploiting, not business.
- jariel 6y ago
  500 Million Europeans are not stupid, and they know what is going on: they see the ads right in front of them and are aware there is some degree of targeting going on. The mechanism of this targeting is not some complicated dark secret - it's literally available to 7 billion people to see any time. It's right there: location, demographic and basic interest targeting. Data is not being sold to anyone, and advertisers can place ads based on a few simple things. There's nothing remotely nefarious. People around the world 100% make the choice to use Facebook with this understanding, it's literally free, and there is no compulsion to use it. If you use Facebook, then you have made the choice, nobody is putting words in your mouth, your assertion is a function of your actions, not my words. If Facebook was leaking data, selling data etc. there would be a problem. But they aren't, so there isn't.
  - piva00 6y ago
    I'm saying that you are wrong given that I worked with data privacy advocacy groups in 3 countries in Europe where one of the researches was exactly to gauge how much the average internet user knows about how their data is collected, used and cross-referenced between multiple parties. You are building the strawman that because people know about data collection they aren't stupid, I never said they are stupid, I'm saying that the way this data is collected and used is so obfuscated from the general public that it's akin to exploiting a whole populace ignorance as a business model. > People around the world 100% make the choice to use Facebook with this understanding, it's literally free, and there is no compulsion to use it. This is patently false, not sure if you like hyperboles or if you are just that ignorant about the knowledge of the rest of the people in the world that doesn't live on Hacker News and breath tech...
wdb 6y ago
Sure, but I am not talking about their users but the company itself. If it doesn't want to follow EU law while doing business in the EU, I think they should not business here... Similarly, to how some news sites in the US block EU ip address so they don't need to comply with GDPR. I am quite happy that EU tries to protect the privacy of its citizens. I would be delighted if the US and other countries would follow suit.