3 ms·

Yep this is why they want "train captains" (kinda like the DLR has) rather than requiring a fully-trained driver in a cab at the front. IIRC there is something

Yep this is why they want "train captains" (kinda like the DLR has) rather than requiring a fully-trained driver in a cab at the front. IIRC there is something like a 6 year waiting list to become a tube driver because they do a 36 hour week for £55k a year (up to £100+k for some) with over 40 days paid holiday, and can retire on a full pension at 50 years old (1) It seems like a ludicrously cushy job and I 100% put it down to those "damn unions" essentially blackmailing TFL by always threatening to strike at the busiest times. I don't blame them,but I don't think that the "damn unions" argument is unjustified when it comes to Tube drivers and there near-constant threats to go on strike for the most rediculous things that any reasonable person would agree were legitimate reasons (such as when a driver was sacked for repeatedly failing drink-driving tests (2), or another for a driver who repeatedly drove through red signals (3)). These are potential disaster near-misses, yet the tube driver's unions use them as more leverage to threaten a strike and squeak out a bit more pay and a bit more holiday. And when they are not doing that, they're frankly taking the piss and threatening to strike over not being able to make a cup of tea (4) 1 - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tube-driver-salary-holidays-working-conditions-a3982211.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tube-driver-salary-holida... 2 - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11444002/Tube-workers-to-strike-over-sacking-of-driver-who-failed-two-alcohol-breath-tests.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transp... 3 - https://metro.co.uk/2018/04/13/tube-workers-striking-protest-driver-sacked-jumping-three-red-signals-11-weeks-7464484/ https://metro.co.uk/2018/04/13/tube-workers-striking-protest... 4 - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1337609/Unions-threaten-Tube-strike-over-cup-of-tea.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1337609/Unions-threa...

joosters 6y ago
The wages and costs of train drivers are pretty insignificant in the costs of running the London Underground, so tiny a percentage of the running costs, yet people focus on them because they earn a relatively good wage (how dare they have a pension that might keep them fed in their retirement! Ban those greedy unions! etc etc ...) Shame on all you haters.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  I just skimmed a few search results and the wage quoted here is within the upper end of a London average - depending on how you define it. There are obviously a lot of fudge factors and things that skew results due to various factors. Having seen and read of things that tube staff have to put up with, they seem to me to earn their wage. Below is a link to the story about the railway worker who died from Covid after being spat in by someone claiming to have Covid. Note that staff appear to have been sent out unwillingly and were not allowed to wear masks. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/12/uk-rail-worker-dies-coronavirus-spat-belly-mujinga https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/12/uk-rail-work...
AnotherGoodName 6y ago
>a 36 hour week for £55k (up to £100+k for some) a year An ok-ish middle class salary. Not outrageous in its own right and i suspect if you compared it to the lifestyle of train drivers 50 years ago it might allow them to live the same sort of lifestyle? It's no secret that our expectations and the job market have changed dramatically but it is telling that jobs with hard fought inflation adjusted wages have wait lists for those jobs. We're like a frog slowly being boiled and we need posts like the above that cause us to think "Hang on didn't train drivers of yesteryear support a wife and three kids? Could you do that on £55k?". As tech workers we all likely earn so much that we could live the middle class lifestyle of yesteryear (paying off the mortgage before retirement, supporting a partner and kids, taking regular family vacations, etc.). I mean we like to think we're all super rich but really we're only where we should be. Perhaps we shouldn't be directing hate downwards here? The wealth gap above us has increased, whilst the wealth controlled by the bottom 50% is lower than ever. The only way the disparity here can be corrected is to accept those below us in salary will fight for more. It's pretty understandable really.
- growlist 6y ago
  It says a lot that you think all tech workers likely earn more than £55k.
  - formerly_proven 6y ago
    Lots of bubbles to go around. Average entry level software developer job in Germany pays 40-45k€ (35-40k£). 60-70k would already be well-paid senior positions. No developer or dev manager earns six figures. These numbers also roughly apply to most engineering disciplines.
- MagnumOpus 6y ago
  > An ok-ish middle class salary Twice to four times the median salary in the UK (and three to six times the salary of a bus driver who is usually far more skilled), for a low-skilled job that requires neither education nor physical exertion. There is a reason why there are massive waiting lists.

joosters 6y ago

The wages and costs of train drivers are pretty insignificant in the costs of running the London Underground, so tiny a percentage of the running costs, yet people focus on them because they earn a relatively good wage (how dare they have a pension that might keep them fed in their retirement! Ban those greedy unions! etc etc ...) Shame on all you haters.

lostlogin 6y ago
I just skimmed a few search results and the wage quoted here is within the upper end of a London average - depending on how you define it. There are obviously a lot of fudge factors and things that skew results due to various factors. Having seen and read of things that tube staff have to put up with, they seem to me to earn their wage. Below is a link to the story about the railway worker who died from Covid after being spat in by someone claiming to have Covid. Note that staff appear to have been sent out unwillingly and were not allowed to wear masks. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/12/uk-rail-worker-dies-coronavirus-spat-belly-mujinga https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/12/uk-rail-work...

AnotherGoodName 6y ago

>a 36 hour week for £55k (up to £100+k for some) a year An ok-ish middle class salary. Not outrageous in its own right and i suspect if you compared it to the lifestyle of train drivers 50 years ago it might allow them to live the same sort of lifestyle? It's no secret that our expectations and the job market have changed dramatically but it is telling that jobs with hard fought inflation adjusted wages have wait lists for those jobs. We're like a frog slowly being boiled and we need posts like the above that cause us to think "Hang on didn't train drivers of yesteryear support a wife and three kids? Could you do that on £55k?". As tech workers we all likely earn so much that we could live the middle class lifestyle of yesteryear (paying off the mortgage before retirement, supporting a partner and kids, taking regular family vacations, etc.). I mean we like to think we're all super rich but really we're only where we should be. Perhaps we shouldn't be directing hate downwards here? The wealth gap above us has increased, whilst the wealth controlled by the bottom 50% is lower than ever. The only way the disparity here can be corrected is to accept those below us in salary will fight for more. It's pretty understandable really.

growlist 6y ago
It says a lot that you think all tech workers likely earn more than £55k.
- formerly_proven 6y ago
  Lots of bubbles to go around. Average entry level software developer job in Germany pays 40-45k€ (35-40k£). 60-70k would already be well-paid senior positions. No developer or dev manager earns six figures. These numbers also roughly apply to most engineering disciplines.
MagnumOpus 6y ago
> An ok-ish middle class salary Twice to four times the median salary in the UK (and three to six times the salary of a bus driver who is usually far more skilled), for a low-skilled job that requires neither education nor physical exertion. There is a reason why there are massive waiting lists.