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> TBH depending on circumstances, working five days a week at home also won't work I am aware that this is an extremely unpopular opinion, but in my opinion on

> TBH depending on circumstances, working five days a week at home also won't work I am aware that this is an extremely unpopular opinion, but in my opinion one shouldn't have kids unless they have the means to dedicate sufficient time and attention to them. That is maybe once you can take 2 days a week off as a parent, or there's UBI or something like that. Would avoid a lot of unhappy marriges, parents and children. Of course, most people seek to 'leave something behind', even at the cost of unhappiness for all involved. I am not sure exactly what a good solution would be, but maybe 40+ hours a week isn't a good deal anymore.

foolfoolz 6y ago
lol this is retarded. who was having kids thinking they were going to stay home with them every day? the whole game has changed. anyone who had a well executed plan of taking care of work and kids has to re-think it all now. so many day cares have closed permanently. after school programs canceled. obviously schools closed. the basic building blocks of separating work and kids are all gone. you have no idea what you’re talking about.
alach11 6y ago
Parents are spending more time with their kids today than was common in the past. There are huge economic/social upsides to having grandparents or schools cover more time.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > Parents are spending more time with their kids today than was common in the past. And? How do we know it's enough? Based on the number of unhappy, abusive households, certainly doesn't seem so. My point is that parents should have the economic means to spend more time with their children if required, such as during a pandemic, while facing minimum stress and economic disruption. When parents have to work full time and often barely be able to take care of their children, it leads to stress at home and directly impact the child. Maybe working 40+ hours a week isn't a good deal anymore?
  - regularfry 6y ago
    Has the number of "unhappy, abusive households" increased along with the rise of dual-income families? That's what you'd expect, right?
regularfry 6y ago
It's all very well realising this in a major unforeseeable disaster, but it doesn't put the egg back in the ovary 6 years after the fact.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23968936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23968936
recursive 6y ago
> in my opinion one shouldn't have kids unless they have the means to dedicate sufficient time and attention to them. People that had sufficient time to dedicate to their children prior to the pandemic no longer do. It's not reasonable to suggest that all prospective parents should have forseen Covid-19.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  You missed my point. Putting children in childcare is not 'having time for them' before the pandemic. They didn't have the time required even before the pandemic, it's just that there was a way to cover up for that lack of time before.
  - recursive 6y ago
    How is this different from buying farm-grown produce at the grocery store rather than raising it in a garden? I mean, you can, but I don't buy an unsupported argument that says that everyone "should" do it that way.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      > How is this different from buying farm-grown produce at the grocery store rather than raising it in a garden? It's different in that you're not directly affecting the well being of people dependent on you by making that choice, apart of course from them being living beings. > don't buy an unsupported argument that says that everyone "should" do it that way Am not saying what anyone should be doing, you do you, just that I think many parents don't realize how much responsibility is it to have children and even if they do, the current way society is set up doesn't allow them to do their best, in most cases.
      - recursive 6y ago
        > It's different in that you're not directly affecting the well being of people dependent on you by making that choice, apart of course from them being living beings. Can I infer that you think constant engagement with parents produces the best outcomes for children? Why do you think that?
rconti 6y ago
I find that low level anxiety has helped me to be prepared for the pandemic. I always worry about "what if", and that means that the possibility of (say) being without an income is already accounted for in my mind. I don't have kids, but I've always worried. How the hell can you afford them? Have plans for them all the time? Never be able to leave the house without them, etc etc etc. Whereas some folks go into things just knowing "it will work" or "they'll find a way". I've watched friends and relatives raise kids; they somehow always manage to find a sitter, or the grandparents step in, or whatever. There are daycare options, schools, etc (in normal times). These are things I don't account for. When I think of having kids I think of being 100% responsible for them all the time, so the actual situation in the pandemic more closely matches my fears than it matches the "old reality". I think of it a lot like planning for retirement and not expecting social security, or a pension, or an inheritance. Planning for the worst case scenario, I guess, but that "worst case" always seems like reality -- and them I'm pleasantly surprised.
sukilot 6y ago
Some people prefer some unhappiness over death. It's a rational choice.

foolfoolz 6y ago

lol this is retarded. who was having kids thinking they were going to stay home with them every day? the whole game has changed. anyone who had a well executed plan of taking care of work and kids has to re-think it all now. so many day cares have closed permanently. after school programs canceled. obviously schools closed. the basic building blocks of separating work and kids are all gone. you have no idea what you’re talking about.

alach11 6y ago

Parents are spending more time with their kids today than was common in the past. There are huge economic/social upsides to having grandparents or schools cover more time.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
> Parents are spending more time with their kids today than was common in the past. And? How do we know it's enough? Based on the number of unhappy, abusive households, certainly doesn't seem so. My point is that parents should have the economic means to spend more time with their children if required, such as during a pandemic, while facing minimum stress and economic disruption. When parents have to work full time and often barely be able to take care of their children, it leads to stress at home and directly impact the child. Maybe working 40+ hours a week isn't a good deal anymore?
- regularfry 6y ago
  Has the number of "unhappy, abusive households" increased along with the rise of dual-income families? That's what you'd expect, right?

regularfry 6y ago

It's all very well realising this in a major unforeseeable disaster, but it doesn't put the egg back in the ovary 6 years after the fact.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23968936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23968936

recursive 6y ago

> in my opinion one shouldn't have kids unless they have the means to dedicate sufficient time and attention to them. People that had sufficient time to dedicate to their children prior to the pandemic no longer do. It's not reasonable to suggest that all prospective parents should have forseen Covid-19.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
You missed my point. Putting children in childcare is not 'having time for them' before the pandemic. They didn't have the time required even before the pandemic, it's just that there was a way to cover up for that lack of time before.
- recursive 6y ago
  How is this different from buying farm-grown produce at the grocery store rather than raising it in a garden? I mean, you can, but I don't buy an unsupported argument that says that everyone "should" do it that way.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    > How is this different from buying farm-grown produce at the grocery store rather than raising it in a garden? It's different in that you're not directly affecting the well being of people dependent on you by making that choice, apart of course from them being living beings. > don't buy an unsupported argument that says that everyone "should" do it that way Am not saying what anyone should be doing, you do you, just that I think many parents don't realize how much responsibility is it to have children and even if they do, the current way society is set up doesn't allow them to do their best, in most cases.
    - recursive 6y ago
      > It's different in that you're not directly affecting the well being of people dependent on you by making that choice, apart of course from them being living beings. Can I infer that you think constant engagement with parents produces the best outcomes for children? Why do you think that?

rconti 6y ago

I find that low level anxiety has helped me to be prepared for the pandemic. I always worry about "what if", and that means that the possibility of (say) being without an income is already accounted for in my mind. I don't have kids, but I've always worried. How the hell can you afford them? Have plans for them all the time? Never be able to leave the house without them, etc etc etc. Whereas some folks go into things just knowing "it will work" or "they'll find a way". I've watched friends and relatives raise kids; they somehow always manage to find a sitter, or the grandparents step in, or whatever. There are daycare options, schools, etc (in normal times). These are things I don't account for. When I think of having kids I think of being 100% responsible for them all the time, so the actual situation in the pandemic more closely matches my fears than it matches the "old reality". I think of it a lot like planning for retirement and not expecting social security, or a pension, or an inheritance. Planning for the worst case scenario, I guess, but that "worst case" always seems like reality -- and them I'm pleasantly surprised.

sukilot 6y ago

Some people prefer some unhappiness over death. It's a rational choice.