4 ms·

From friends on the ground in Portland I will say it's largely still aggravated by police presence and the DHS/federal agents. If authorities did not step in wi

From friends on the ground in Portland I will say it's largely still aggravated by police presence and the DHS/federal agents. If authorities did not step in with tear gas and kidnapping protests would have continue to be mostly nonviolent. Turns out that when you meet protests against police brutality with police brutality and disappearing citizens, nothing improves. There are small groups and agitators causing issues not out of self defense but they are few and far between if not turned over by protesters when identified. Portland isn't on fire, civil rights are.

jeffreyrogers 6y ago
What other protests have anywhere near this much violence? Gay rights movements have had large protests/marches for decades. Same with anti-abortion activists (and pro-choice activists). Hell, even literal neo-nazis have protests that don't get this violent.
- newacct583 6y ago
  This is a protest against the police. So of course the cops are going to get violent. What's horrifying is the extent to which people refuse to see that and just figure "well, the protesters have to have done something to deserve it".
- e5india 6y ago
  Not a protest per se, but riots did result from police violence against the gay community. https://www.history.com/topics/gay-rights/the-stonewall-riots https://www.history.com/topics/gay-rights/the-stonewall-riot...
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  The Stonewall riots (also referred to as the Stonewall uprising or the Stonewall rebellion) were a series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations by members of the gay (LGBT) community[note 1] in response to a police raid that began in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969, at the Stonewall Inn in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of Manhattan, New York City. Patrons of the Stonewall, other Village lesbian and gay bars, and neighborhood street people fought back when the police became violent. The riots are widely considered to constitute one of the most important events leading to the gay liberation movement[2][3] and the modern fight for LGBT rights in the United States.[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots The 1970s generally were rather more violent than is commonly remembered: https://time.com/4501670/bombings-of-america-burrough/ https://time.com/4501670/bombings-of-america-burrough/ Going further back, there's the history of police (and military) response to labour organisation, the reason many larger US cities have military armouries: The proliferation of urban armories—dedicated buildings for National Guard unit training and community functions—dates to the 19th century, according to Army National Guard Lt. Col. Don McFadden, chief of the Strategic Plans and Education Branch. “The Civil War draft riots and labor riots of the 19th century spurred construction,” he says https://savingplaces.org/stories/a-salute-to-us-armories https://savingplaces.org/stories/a-salute-to-us-armories As Jeremy Brecher wrote in his labor history Strike! state governments built armories as fortresses in American cities “not against invasion from abroad but against popular revolt at home.” https://shoeleatherhistoryproject.com/2020/03/12/storm-center-of-labor-unrest/ https://shoeleatherhistoryproject.com/2020/03/12/storm-cente...
  - jeffreyrogers 6y ago
    That you had to go back to the 60s and 70s to make your point demonstrates how out of the ordinary these "mostly peaceful" protests are.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      There are more recent examples, I'm sure you could find several on a few minutes' search. A common element to many is protest not simply of some policy or political issue, but where the aggrieved group is seen by The System as non-persons, and the protest is aimed at the system itself. Most especially at how The System exerts its will, which is to say, through police forces, courts, and corrections. When the institutions of law and order themselves are questioned, common ground is thin, and dialogue gives way to protest, suppression, and violence. The wave of George Floyd protests in 2020 is a continuation of the Black Lives Matter movement in 2013, itself evolving from the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, with its own history of violent outbursts in every decade since, many provoked by police brutality against minorities. The principle distinguishing characteristic of the current protests in Portland, Seattle, New York, Chicago, and elsewhere is that the movement has general support well outside specific oppressed populations.
      - jeffreyrogers 6y ago
        I'm not aware of any recent protests (e.g. last 10 years) in the US having the level of violence of these protests[0]. You don't seem to be aware of any either, since you haven't provided any examples, despite telling me how easily they could be found. [0]: Which include over $500m in damages: https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/11/federal-government-denies-minnesotas-request-for-aid-to-clean-up-rebuild-in-twin-cities https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/11/federal-government-..., and that is just in one state. So the total is likely billions across the entire US.
        dredmorbius 6y ago
        One readily findable list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unr... There are 35 incidents listed from 2010--2020, inclusive. Another 25 dating to 1990, which for some of us is still recent history. Damages for numerous events (in 2020 dollars) is in at least the $1s to $10s of millions of dollars range. Even the quiescent 1980s sees 8 entries, down from 35 in the 1970s and over 65 listed for the 1960s, suggesting relatively little presentism bias. Going back further, one finds the behaviour throughout US history, though with some decades standing out especially. The 1860s & 1870s, 1910s & 1920s (often white-on-black violence, including but scarcely limited to the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921, but also other immigrant and anti-union violence). The majority of the events from the 20th century onwards, but especially since 1990, are tied either to racial protest or incidents of police brutality or killing, Numerous others to white-nationalist or similar majority-induced violence. Sufficiently aware?

jeffreyrogers 6y ago

What other protests have anywhere near this much violence? Gay rights movements have had large protests/marches for decades. Same with anti-abortion activists (and pro-choice activists). Hell, even literal neo-nazis have protests that don't get this violent.

newacct583 6y ago
This is a protest against the police. So of course the cops are going to get violent. What's horrifying is the extent to which people refuse to see that and just figure "well, the protesters have to have done something to deserve it".
e5india 6y ago
Not a protest per se, but riots did result from police violence against the gay community. https://www.history.com/topics/gay-rights/the-stonewall-riots https://www.history.com/topics/gay-rights/the-stonewall-riot...
dredmorbius 6y ago
The Stonewall riots (also referred to as the Stonewall uprising or the Stonewall rebellion) were a series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations by members of the gay (LGBT) community[note 1] in response to a police raid that began in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969, at the Stonewall Inn in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of Manhattan, New York City. Patrons of the Stonewall, other Village lesbian and gay bars, and neighborhood street people fought back when the police became violent. The riots are widely considered to constitute one of the most important events leading to the gay liberation movement[2][3] and the modern fight for LGBT rights in the United States.[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots The 1970s generally were rather more violent than is commonly remembered: https://time.com/4501670/bombings-of-america-burrough/ https://time.com/4501670/bombings-of-america-burrough/ Going further back, there's the history of police (and military) response to labour organisation, the reason many larger US cities have military armouries: The proliferation of urban armories—dedicated buildings for National Guard unit training and community functions—dates to the 19th century, according to Army National Guard Lt. Col. Don McFadden, chief of the Strategic Plans and Education Branch. “The Civil War draft riots and labor riots of the 19th century spurred construction,” he says https://savingplaces.org/stories/a-salute-to-us-armories https://savingplaces.org/stories/a-salute-to-us-armories As Jeremy Brecher wrote in his labor history Strike! state governments built armories as fortresses in American cities “not against invasion from abroad but against popular revolt at home.” https://shoeleatherhistoryproject.com/2020/03/12/storm-center-of-labor-unrest/ https://shoeleatherhistoryproject.com/2020/03/12/storm-cente...
- jeffreyrogers 6y ago
  That you had to go back to the 60s and 70s to make your point demonstrates how out of the ordinary these "mostly peaceful" protests are.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    There are more recent examples, I'm sure you could find several on a few minutes' search. A common element to many is protest not simply of some policy or political issue, but where the aggrieved group is seen by The System as non-persons, and the protest is aimed at the system itself. Most especially at how The System exerts its will, which is to say, through police forces, courts, and corrections. When the institutions of law and order themselves are questioned, common ground is thin, and dialogue gives way to protest, suppression, and violence. The wave of George Floyd protests in 2020 is a continuation of the Black Lives Matter movement in 2013, itself evolving from the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, with its own history of violent outbursts in every decade since, many provoked by police brutality against minorities. The principle distinguishing characteristic of the current protests in Portland, Seattle, New York, Chicago, and elsewhere is that the movement has general support well outside specific oppressed populations.
    - jeffreyrogers 6y ago
      I'm not aware of any recent protests (e.g. last 10 years) in the US having the level of violence of these protests[0]. You don't seem to be aware of any either, since you haven't provided any examples, despite telling me how easily they could be found. [0]: Which include over $500m in damages: https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/11/federal-government-denies-minnesotas-request-for-aid-to-clean-up-rebuild-in-twin-cities https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/11/federal-government-..., and that is just in one state. So the total is likely billions across the entire US.
      - dredmorbius 6y ago
        One readily findable list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unr... There are 35 incidents listed from 2010--2020, inclusive. Another 25 dating to 1990, which for some of us is still recent history. Damages for numerous events (in 2020 dollars) is in at least the $1s to $10s of millions of dollars range. Even the quiescent 1980s sees 8 entries, down from 35 in the 1970s and over 65 listed for the 1960s, suggesting relatively little presentism bias. Going back further, one finds the behaviour throughout US history, though with some decades standing out especially. The 1860s & 1870s, 1910s & 1920s (often white-on-black violence, including but scarcely limited to the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921, but also other immigrant and anti-union violence). The majority of the events from the 20th century onwards, but especially since 1990, are tied either to racial protest or incidents of police brutality or killing, Numerous others to white-nationalist or similar majority-induced violence. Sufficiently aware?