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That's exactly the point. It's the same thing. But it's a cool weapon gadget presented here, when it's a horrifying atrocity that demands tear gas and brutali

That's exactly the point. It's the same thing. But it's a cool weapon gadget presented here, when it's a horrifying atrocity that demands tear gas and brutality when used by the "other side". It's this weaponization of "bothsidesism" that I'm having trouble with. We've got an almost 100% peaceful protest of hippies going on every night for two months, but what posters here want to talk about is the fancy anti-riot gear being used against them.

rimjongun 6y ago
I think to call it almost 100% peaceful is not meeting us in good faith. That’s simply nowhere approaching the truth.
- newacct583 6y ago
  What's your estimate then? I mean... I'm here in Portland. I can drive right by downtown (drove straight through Ground Zero at main and 3rd just this morning). I see the hippies. I don't see violence. Show me the violence. Tell me why I need to support tear gassing these kids every night for two months. No one will. But I see people vote up these posts about "yay lasers!" instead. I'm out of patience here. I can see with my own eyes who the bad guys are, so can you, and yet... "look! lasers!"
  - DuskStar 6y ago
    Well, "no violence that I have personally seen during the day" doesn't really have any relevance to "is there violence during the night" - and all the police brutality / protester violence / arson etc videos I've seen from Portland have been at night.
    - newacct583 6y ago
      You know what I meant. There's plenty of video evidence of brutality on one side (again: literally tear gas, impact munitions and billy clubs every night for two months!) and a flood of highly spun "well, it's sorta like violence" on the other (laser pointers, fireworks, cutting fences, "they're holding shields"). I can see what I see. You can too. So why the insistence that "we don't know"? We know.
    - vkou 6y ago
      I can't speak for Portland, but I have seen the SPD instigate violence on numerous occasions, against peaceful protests. In those instances, including in the time leading up to the violence - nobody was throwing anything at the police lines, nobody was destroying property - until the police started chucking flash and gas grenades and firing less-lethal bullets into crowds. (Which have all, by the way, been outlawed by city council - yet the police department is still using them.) That is not how every Seattle protest has gone, but that's how many of them have - many during the day (Although a few turned that way at night, as well).
  - forgot_account 6y ago
    >>>I don't see violence. Show me the violence. How about shooting commercial-grade incendiaries at an occupied structure and causing injuries? https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/portland-riots-july-4/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/portland-riots-july-4/inde... "The fireworks injured several officers when they exploded on or near them, the statement said." Or the 6 officers injured Friday night: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/26/portland-protests-police-declare-riot-violence-grows/5513752002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/26/portla...
DuskStar 6y ago
Well, one of the two has safety features installed to make sure that the laser doesn't blind anyone, and the other doesn't. So yeah, the military version is actually a fair bit safer and less damaging than the would-actually-be-a-war-crime blinding weapons that protestors seem to be using.

rimjongun 6y ago

I think to call it almost 100% peaceful is not meeting us in good faith. That’s simply nowhere approaching the truth.

newacct583 6y ago
What's your estimate then? I mean... I'm here in Portland. I can drive right by downtown (drove straight through Ground Zero at main and 3rd just this morning). I see the hippies. I don't see violence. Show me the violence. Tell me why I need to support tear gassing these kids every night for two months. No one will. But I see people vote up these posts about "yay lasers!" instead. I'm out of patience here. I can see with my own eyes who the bad guys are, so can you, and yet... "look! lasers!"
- DuskStar 6y ago
  Well, "no violence that I have personally seen during the day" doesn't really have any relevance to "is there violence during the night" - and all the police brutality / protester violence / arson etc videos I've seen from Portland have been at night.
  - newacct583 6y ago
    You know what I meant. There's plenty of video evidence of brutality on one side (again: literally tear gas, impact munitions and billy clubs every night for two months!) and a flood of highly spun "well, it's sorta like violence" on the other (laser pointers, fireworks, cutting fences, "they're holding shields"). I can see what I see. You can too. So why the insistence that "we don't know"? We know.
  - vkou 6y ago
    I can't speak for Portland, but I have seen the SPD instigate violence on numerous occasions, against peaceful protests. In those instances, including in the time leading up to the violence - nobody was throwing anything at the police lines, nobody was destroying property - until the police started chucking flash and gas grenades and firing less-lethal bullets into crowds. (Which have all, by the way, been outlawed by city council - yet the police department is still using them.) That is not how every Seattle protest has gone, but that's how many of them have - many during the day (Although a few turned that way at night, as well).
- forgot_account 6y ago
  >>>I don't see violence. Show me the violence. How about shooting commercial-grade incendiaries at an occupied structure and causing injuries? https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/portland-riots-july-4/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/portland-riots-july-4/inde... "The fireworks injured several officers when they exploded on or near them, the statement said." Or the 6 officers injured Friday night: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/26/portland-protests-police-declare-riot-violence-grows/5513752002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/26/portla...

DuskStar 6y ago

Well, one of the two has safety features installed to make sure that the laser doesn't blind anyone, and the other doesn't. So yeah, the military version is actually a fair bit safer and less damaging than the would-actually-be-a-war-crime blinding weapons that protestors seem to be using.