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Question regarding your last 2 points: how do you reconcile the fact that "there is always something to learn" with "I'm basically just learning a library/frame

by dudul 6y ago

Question regarding your last 2 points: how do you reconcile the fact that "there is always something to learn" with "I'm basically just learning a library/framework that does the exact same thing but with different names in the API"? I'm being a little hyperbolic here, but after a few decades in the industry it's kind of baffling how few novel ideas are in these new frameworks. There is even a trend to go back to server side HTML and SOAP-like APIs. The tech industry sometimes just looks like the fashion industry. But maybe I'm just too cynical :)

IggleSniggle 6y ago
I think there is some cyclic property here, but I like to think of it as a sort of meta-refactoring. As we go back to SOAP-like APIs, as we return to mainframe computing, as we rediscover peer-to-peer networks, we take all the knowledge and improvements from exploring an alternate area with us. The advancement is in the nuance. And, of course, there's also just the Eternal September effect with the vast majority of developers needing to learn things that the grey beards have already learned but have no succinct way to communicate (or just aren't heard over the roar of constantly greater numbers of developers with each passing year)
TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
> I'm basically just learning a library/framework that does the exact same thing but with different names in the API"? I won’t say I reconcile anything, but I get a chuckle out of it. Makes it easier to learn the new flavor. As The Who said, “Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.” To add another example to the two you provided: how many different designs and implementations have you seen for pub/sub and message-based systems (topics/queues). I literally lost count. Even fucking Redis has an implementation! They go back at least to the 1970s. (Remember Enterprise Service Busses in the 90s?)
arethuza 6y ago
"SOAP-like APIs" Do you mean things like Swagger? [NB There have been few things I've hated more than SOAP]
- dudul 6y ago
  No, as far as I understand Swagger it's just a tool to document your API. I'm more thinking about some ways GraphQL is used/implemented.
oblio 6y ago
I think it easy to lose sight of the big picture. Things are constantly improving, even if the road is winding. People just forget some of the horrors of the past. We used to have VB/VBA, now we have Javascript. We used to have Ada, now we have Rust. C++ has evolved. Even C has evolved, in a kind of meta way: C itself hasn't evolved much, but the ecosystem around it has evolved a lot. How common was something like Valgrind back in 1990? Whenever you forget how much we've moved forward, despite occasional setbacks, look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U :-)

by dudul 6y ago

IggleSniggle 6y ago

I think there is some cyclic property here, but I like to think of it as a sort of meta-refactoring. As we go back to SOAP-like APIs, as we return to mainframe computing, as we rediscover peer-to-peer networks, we take all the knowledge and improvements from exploring an alternate area with us. The advancement is in the nuance. And, of course, there's also just the Eternal September effect with the vast majority of developers needing to learn things that the grey beards have already learned but have no succinct way to communicate (or just aren't heard over the roar of constantly greater numbers of developers with each passing year)

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago

> I'm basically just learning a library/framework that does the exact same thing but with different names in the API"? I won’t say I reconcile anything, but I get a chuckle out of it. Makes it easier to learn the new flavor. As The Who said, “Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.” To add another example to the two you provided: how many different designs and implementations have you seen for pub/sub and message-based systems (topics/queues). I literally lost count. Even fucking Redis has an implementation! They go back at least to the 1970s. (Remember Enterprise Service Busses in the 90s?)

arethuza 6y ago

"SOAP-like APIs" Do you mean things like Swagger? [NB There have been few things I've hated more than SOAP]

dudul 6y ago
No, as far as I understand Swagger it's just a tool to document your API. I'm more thinking about some ways GraphQL is used/implemented.

oblio 6y ago

I think it easy to lose sight of the big picture. Things are constantly improving, even if the road is winding. People just forget some of the horrors of the past. We used to have VB/VBA, now we have Javascript. We used to have Ada, now we have Rust. C++ has evolved. Even C has evolved, in a kind of meta way: C itself hasn't evolved much, but the ecosystem around it has evolved a lot. How common was something like Valgrind back in 1990? Whenever you forget how much we've moved forward, despite occasional setbacks, look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U :-)