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> For an upfront payment of $5,000 they can buy an array of solar panels and an electric pump. Once it is installed, there are virtually no running costs. I do

> For an upfront payment of $5,000 they can buy an array of solar panels and an electric pump. Once it is installed, there are virtually no running costs. I don't know much about solar panels, but I thought they broke down fairly frequently and required specialized tools and knowledge to repair? This article makes it sound like the panels are pretty reliable over time, which would be welcome news to me. 2) Drilling down 100M to groundwater -- does this require industrial equipment? I wonder how these farmers afford it, if so, or perhaps drilling 100M is much easier than I believe?

zensavona 6y ago
When I was growing up my family had a goat stud - we had one of these wells drilled and if I remember correctly it cost somewhere in the order of ~$50k AUD
brohee 6y ago
The wells were already there I understand. Solar is just replacing diesel generators...
- setgree 6y ago
  From the article: > "It's just how opium poppy is farmed now," Mr Brittan tells me. "They drill down 100m (325ft) or so to the ground water, put in an electric pump and wire it up to a few panels and bingo, the water starts flowing." This suggests, to me, that the farmers dug the wells. But maybe they are a relic of soviet times? Point is, there is more to the story here w.r.t. existing capital, I think.
- dmurray 6y ago
  TFA says there is way more area being cultivated and more farmers in the existing area, which must also imply there are plenty more wells being drilled.
kitten_mittens_ 6y ago
My parents’ exurb in Idaho features houses with wells down 100 meters or more. It costs about $10K USD to drill a well these days.
- setgree 6y ago
  ...Do we think that opium farmers in Afghanistan have the same equipment as your parents' exurb? I would be surprised
  - cosmodisk 6y ago
    Just googled to see what's out there. Simple and pretty small rigs can do 150ft, so I don't think it'd a huge challenge to get a slightly bigger one. They also seem to be relatively cheap. I think a lot of people underestimate the level of access to products/services if the right money is involved. If I was buying opium from those farmers I'd give it for free as long as I'd know I'd get lots of products for years to come.
    - evjim 6y ago
      I bought an Alibaba well drilling rig for $3k plus shipping and tariffs. I drilled 130ft deep with it. It took months to fix problems the machine came with and get proper drill bits adapted to it. Then at 130 ft I hit a void. All the drilling mud that you intend to recirculate drained into the ground. This can be a great sign. Aquifers also can absorb liquid. But I couldn't drill further. I did some testing with an airlift pump out the drill stem. It seemed I hit an aquifer. I had to reem the hole larger and used bentonite at the bottom of the hole to restore circulation. During the whole process the manufacturer offered little guidance. The user manual is just a few pages of poor translation. Their YouTube channel is disjointed 10sec clips of them drilling. The best advice I got was from a local retired driller that came by. In the end, I still can't get water out of the hole. I drilled some geothermal wells next to my house so I can theoretically use those and not feel like it's a waste. I'm selling the machine and hiring a pro haha. That was a fun hobby for a year. I had better success on friends property's with shallower water tables where we could hand auger 30ft down to water for $100 worth of tools.
ytjohn 6y ago
Keep in mind that at this point, the solar panels may be the cheapest and longest lasting component of your build. My 5Kw system has about $3k in inverter+charger controller+battery, $600 in solar panels (producing 2.6Kw peak), and I spent about $250 on angle iron and fasteners. Batteries will need replaced more often. Though in the article's case, if your pump can run across a wide range of voltage, you could skip quite a bit and just run your pump directly from solar during the day. General life expectancy of a solar panel is 25-30 years. If they get damaged though (cracked glass), that will let water get into the cells and that will drastically reduce life expectancy. But otherwise, a nice long life. They'll also keep operating beyond that lifespan, however the cells do degrade and produce less power. Where it gets interesting though is that the cost of solar keeps decreasing and the cells themselves become more efficient. I have some used solar panels that are 78" x 39" and produce 265W. I got 10 of them for $600 shipped (technically $400 for the panels and $200 for the shipping). So used, I'm about 23 cents/watt shipped; 15cents/watt basic. But obviously no warranty and these are less efficient. You can get a used 380W panel that fits in the same space, but around 59cents/watt. In a few years, those 380W panels will be even cheaper, and I could theoretically add an additional KW of power on the same footprint on my roof. New panels will run about $2-$4/watt. Each generation of solar tends to be more efficient, packing more wattage into less space, and each generation often leads to some place deciding to replace or upgrade their 10-20yr old panels, which then end up on the used market benefitting people like me.
pjc50 6y ago
> I don't know much about solar panels, but I thought they broke down fairly frequently and required specialized tools and knowledge to repair? Where did you hear that? Have they perchance been trying to mislead you about renewables? A solar cell is a huge flat diode. A panel is a chain of them in series. It sits there and makes electricity when exposed to light. There are no moving parts other than electrons. It requires no lubrication and no maintenance. Since they're sealed units under glass, the only thing you might have to worry about is leaks and damage from weather, which can be addressed with sealant if the panel is still functional. Admittedly if you crack it badly enough it will be unrepairable. The inverter is slightly more fragile, being a big piece of power electronics, but still usually guaranteed for 10 years. The most fragile part of the system is probably the pump.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- setgree 6y ago
  I believe I developed that impression from reading about peace corps projects involving solar panels, that, once the volunteers left, no one has the expertise to maintain, so they just went unused. I am glad to learn otherwise! I’m looking at some property in upstate NY and would love to install some panels.
  - errantspark 6y ago
    Highly recommend it, though beware your yields will be truly abysmal during the winter. I live entirely off-grid in California and even here the dead of winter can be a bit tight on power. I will say setting the whole thing up is super duper easy, and if you buy second-hand solar your price/watt can be very very cheap. I paid about 30c/watt for panels.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Ah right - that is more a problem of peace corps and similar projects. You can't just "air drop" technology into a place to produce economic results, it has to fit in with the local economy. Unfortunately in Afghanistan the local economy is opium. (see also: attempted modernisation of collective farming in communist countries; "rocket stoves"; pumps driven by "children playing", and so on.) I have a 4kW set up here at 56 degrees north in Scotland. The big downside is not the diurnal cycle but the seasonal one; off-grid is not viable here without wind. If I've read this map correctly New York state goes up to 45N, so you should get great power in summer but need to think carefully about winter. I believe you also get colder winters than us?
magicalhippo 6y ago
> I don't know much about solar panels, but I thought they broke down fairly frequently and required specialized tools and knowledge to repair? My grandparents installed a solar panel at their (now my) cabin over 35 years ago. We typically have lots of snow during winter and temperatures down to -20C. During spring and fall it is usually quite windy, with lots of rain and some hail now and then. Summer time it often goes above 30C. The panel itself has had zero maintenance during that time. It's just been standing there, doing its thing. Maybe someone wiped it once in a while, but not more than that. A couple of years ago I had to dismount it to do some repairs on the cabin, and then the "cables" going from the outside connection into the panel broke. Some fragile foil-looking things. But up until then it was working just fine. The battery required more care, but the panel just worked.
- setgree 6y ago
  I'm stoked to hear that, thank you! I am actually looking at buying some property in the Catskills and I was thinking of adding in some solar panels because I thought it would be fun, and this is welcome news.
boogies 6y ago
In this area the water seems like the least renewable resource / more of a short term concern: “So much water is now being used that ground water levels in Helmand are estimated to be falling by 3m a year. The fear is that pretty soon the water will simply run out. "Maybe this boom will not last longer than 10 years," says Orzala Nemat.” Home solar panels seem to typically come with guarantees of ~80% capacity up to 20-25 years. I think they need cleaning for peak performance, but that doesn't seem important in this use case.
4043D 6y ago
im currently an off grid farmer i used to work in tech. the current iteration of solar panels are very reliable even the dirt cheap chinese panels will last 10 plus years. the screw pumps a really simple and only need the rubber screw replaced every few years. the pump controller is probably the most complex part that varies pump to pump, in theory you could solder something up very cheap if you just want an on off situation. going down 100 meters is a long way for a bore and not all ground water is equal, the better aquifers for irrigation are often a lot closer to the surface. to drill a bore you need a drilling rig. for an example in australia i had a bore put down it cost me $160 a meter so you can do the math on what a 100M hole would cost. (also no guarantee you hit water at all or its usable). this article while well meaning doesn't understand how farmers irrigate. while i dont contest the heroin output of afghanistan is going up i can't conclude its the access to solar pumps that are doing it.

zensavona 6y ago

When I was growing up my family had a goat stud - we had one of these wells drilled and if I remember correctly it cost somewhere in the order of ~$50k AUD

brohee 6y ago

The wells were already there I understand. Solar is just replacing diesel generators...

setgree 6y ago
From the article: > "It's just how opium poppy is farmed now," Mr Brittan tells me. "They drill down 100m (325ft) or so to the ground water, put in an electric pump and wire it up to a few panels and bingo, the water starts flowing." This suggests, to me, that the farmers dug the wells. But maybe they are a relic of soviet times? Point is, there is more to the story here w.r.t. existing capital, I think.
dmurray 6y ago
TFA says there is way more area being cultivated and more farmers in the existing area, which must also imply there are plenty more wells being drilled.

kitten_mittens_ 6y ago

My parents’ exurb in Idaho features houses with wells down 100 meters or more. It costs about $10K USD to drill a well these days.

setgree 6y ago
...Do we think that opium farmers in Afghanistan have the same equipment as your parents' exurb? I would be surprised
- cosmodisk 6y ago
  Just googled to see what's out there. Simple and pretty small rigs can do 150ft, so I don't think it'd a huge challenge to get a slightly bigger one. They also seem to be relatively cheap. I think a lot of people underestimate the level of access to products/services if the right money is involved. If I was buying opium from those farmers I'd give it for free as long as I'd know I'd get lots of products for years to come.
  - evjim 6y ago
    I bought an Alibaba well drilling rig for $3k plus shipping and tariffs. I drilled 130ft deep with it. It took months to fix problems the machine came with and get proper drill bits adapted to it. Then at 130 ft I hit a void. All the drilling mud that you intend to recirculate drained into the ground. This can be a great sign. Aquifers also can absorb liquid. But I couldn't drill further. I did some testing with an airlift pump out the drill stem. It seemed I hit an aquifer. I had to reem the hole larger and used bentonite at the bottom of the hole to restore circulation. During the whole process the manufacturer offered little guidance. The user manual is just a few pages of poor translation. Their YouTube channel is disjointed 10sec clips of them drilling. The best advice I got was from a local retired driller that came by. In the end, I still can't get water out of the hole. I drilled some geothermal wells next to my house so I can theoretically use those and not feel like it's a waste. I'm selling the machine and hiring a pro haha. That was a fun hobby for a year. I had better success on friends property's with shallower water tables where we could hand auger 30ft down to water for $100 worth of tools.

ytjohn 6y ago

Keep in mind that at this point, the solar panels may be the cheapest and longest lasting component of your build. My 5Kw system has about $3k in inverter+charger controller+battery, $600 in solar panels (producing 2.6Kw peak), and I spent about $250 on angle iron and fasteners. Batteries will need replaced more often. Though in the article's case, if your pump can run across a wide range of voltage, you could skip quite a bit and just run your pump directly from solar during the day. General life expectancy of a solar panel is 25-30 years. If they get damaged though (cracked glass), that will let water get into the cells and that will drastically reduce life expectancy. But otherwise, a nice long life. They'll also keep operating beyond that lifespan, however the cells do degrade and produce less power. Where it gets interesting though is that the cost of solar keeps decreasing and the cells themselves become more efficient. I have some used solar panels that are 78" x 39" and produce 265W. I got 10 of them for $600 shipped (technically $400 for the panels and $200 for the shipping). So used, I'm about 23 cents/watt shipped; 15cents/watt basic. But obviously no warranty and these are less efficient. You can get a used 380W panel that fits in the same space, but around 59cents/watt. In a few years, those 380W panels will be even cheaper, and I could theoretically add an additional KW of power on the same footprint on my roof. New panels will run about $2-$4/watt. Each generation of solar tends to be more efficient, packing more wattage into less space, and each generation often leads to some place deciding to replace or upgrade their 10-20yr old panels, which then end up on the used market benefitting people like me.

pjc50 6y ago

> I don't know much about solar panels, but I thought they broke down fairly frequently and required specialized tools and knowledge to repair? Where did you hear that? Have they perchance been trying to mislead you about renewables? A solar cell is a huge flat diode. A panel is a chain of them in series. It sits there and makes electricity when exposed to light. There are no moving parts other than electrons. It requires no lubrication and no maintenance. Since they're sealed units under glass, the only thing you might have to worry about is leaks and damage from weather, which can be addressed with sealant if the panel is still functional. Admittedly if you crack it badly enough it will be unrepairable. The inverter is slightly more fragile, being a big piece of power electronics, but still usually guaranteed for 10 years. The most fragile part of the system is probably the pump.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
setgree 6y ago
I believe I developed that impression from reading about peace corps projects involving solar panels, that, once the volunteers left, no one has the expertise to maintain, so they just went unused. I am glad to learn otherwise! I’m looking at some property in upstate NY and would love to install some panels.
- errantspark 6y ago
  Highly recommend it, though beware your yields will be truly abysmal during the winter. I live entirely off-grid in California and even here the dead of winter can be a bit tight on power. I will say setting the whole thing up is super duper easy, and if you buy second-hand solar your price/watt can be very very cheap. I paid about 30c/watt for panels.
- pjc50 6y ago
  Ah right - that is more a problem of peace corps and similar projects. You can't just "air drop" technology into a place to produce economic results, it has to fit in with the local economy. Unfortunately in Afghanistan the local economy is opium. (see also: attempted modernisation of collective farming in communist countries; "rocket stoves"; pumps driven by "children playing", and so on.) I have a 4kW set up here at 56 degrees north in Scotland. The big downside is not the diurnal cycle but the seasonal one; off-grid is not viable here without wind. If I've read this map correctly New York state goes up to 45N, so you should get great power in summer but need to think carefully about winter. I believe you also get colder winters than us?

magicalhippo 6y ago

> I don't know much about solar panels, but I thought they broke down fairly frequently and required specialized tools and knowledge to repair? My grandparents installed a solar panel at their (now my) cabin over 35 years ago. We typically have lots of snow during winter and temperatures down to -20C. During spring and fall it is usually quite windy, with lots of rain and some hail now and then. Summer time it often goes above 30C. The panel itself has had zero maintenance during that time. It's just been standing there, doing its thing. Maybe someone wiped it once in a while, but not more than that. A couple of years ago I had to dismount it to do some repairs on the cabin, and then the "cables" going from the outside connection into the panel broke. Some fragile foil-looking things. But up until then it was working just fine. The battery required more care, but the panel just worked.

setgree 6y ago
I'm stoked to hear that, thank you! I am actually looking at buying some property in the Catskills and I was thinking of adding in some solar panels because I thought it would be fun, and this is welcome news.

boogies 6y ago

In this area the water seems like the least renewable resource / more of a short term concern: “So much water is now being used that ground water levels in Helmand are estimated to be falling by 3m a year. The fear is that pretty soon the water will simply run out. "Maybe this boom will not last longer than 10 years," says Orzala Nemat.” Home solar panels seem to typically come with guarantees of ~80% capacity up to 20-25 years. I think they need cleaning for peak performance, but that doesn't seem important in this use case.

4043D 6y ago

im currently an off grid farmer i used to work in tech. the current iteration of solar panels are very reliable even the dirt cheap chinese panels will last 10 plus years. the screw pumps a really simple and only need the rubber screw replaced every few years. the pump controller is probably the most complex part that varies pump to pump, in theory you could solder something up very cheap if you just want an on off situation. going down 100 meters is a long way for a bore and not all ground water is equal, the better aquifers for irrigation are often a lot closer to the surface. to drill a bore you need a drilling rig. for an example in australia i had a bore put down it cost me $160 a meter so you can do the math on what a 100M hole would cost. (also no guarantee you hit water at all or its usable). this article while well meaning doesn't understand how farmers irrigate. while i dont contest the heroin output of afghanistan is going up i can't conclude its the access to solar pumps that are doing it.