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It's about being liked. A 40 year veteran technology sales exec repeats to me all the time, "People do business with people they like." Trust is a big part of l

It's about being liked. A 40 year veteran technology sales exec repeats to me all the time, "People do business with people they like." Trust is a big part of liking someone, and trust is key to doing business, especially for Warren. There is no way he'd do business with someone he distrusted. That trust is earned, and this chit-chat is part of building trust. In persuasion, it's called 'pacing': showing that you have something in common, even unrelated to the business at hand, before trying to convince someone to take an action.

sukilot 6y ago
It's a bit strange that, Buffett, who made billions on technical analysis of businesses, makes decisions based on who can manipulate him with Dale Carnegey (who changed his named to Carnegie to make people like him) tricks. Perhaps it's a meta thing, where Buffet only works with manipulators because he knows they need to manipulate others to succeed.
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
  Being a strong business manager and being liked are not mutually exclusive.
- ftio 6y ago
  Are you claiming that, in a business setting, all people who are nice to work and talk with are manipulators? Do you think Warren Buffet is incapable of discerning the difference between an authentically pleasant, kind person and a manipulator? Does he strike you as the kind of person to be easily duped? Whether we're talking about Buffet or in general, this is a pretty dim view of work and of the world. Most of us spend the majority of our time at work. For many (for most, I hope), building relationships at work isn't the bizarre lifehack game I so often see it characterized as here. Instead, those human connections are intrinsically fulfilling and they help give meaning to the work and to our lives, which can sometimes feel arbitrary and meaningless.
  - nonbirithm 6y ago
    I'll probably get flak for this, but here is my experience. I was fired from my first internship in college. An internship. And the reason apparently had to do with these really subtle ways I interacted with the high level employees that nobody told me about. For example, it appeared to be that getting up and leaving at lunch break while a C-level is talking about his vacation to Cancun without saying "I'm leaving, it was nice to see you, thanks for the chat about Cancun" was a firable offense. So offensive, apparently, that immediately after my manager pulled me into a room and absolutely grilled me for it in the most direct, robotic language he could. The point was clear. Don't just get up and leave if a C-level is making small talk, even if it's on break. I should mention that this was a company that prided itself on its "startup mentality". At the time this scared the shit out of me. My college age self started to believe: is this just how the real world works? You think all is fine until it isn't, because nobody told you their specific rules for what is acceptable to do or what they really think of you? By the time they told me it was my last day I completely failed to be surprised. This was what they actually wanted to tell me to my face for so long. But the only place and time they were going to tell it to me was five minutes out of their busy schedule out of the sight of all the people programming and shooting the shit about Cancun and having a good laugh together. Building relationships with each other. Tangible, valuable relationships. "Real" relationships. Today, with some added experience I more or less understand: Yes, that org was dysfunctional if that's what it came down to, all those unwritten social rules I had no way of understanding if nobody was going to tell me I would be fired for breaking them. I contrast this with my current job where this kind of thing would not be tolerated in the slightest, and instead their policy is tolerance of absolutely everyone and their thoughts and feelings, so long as they aren't disruptive. But how was that manager talking to me before that lunch break? With great rapport. I had found him very likeable up to that point. He guided me through the steps to set up my devenv and introduced me to the members of the team who he gave nicknames and shot the breeze with them and me and laughed and talked to me about his opinions on marriage and having children and appeared to be having a nice time with me, until he apparently started believing I was dead weight because of whatever unspeakable thing I did and the subsequent lack of any programming-related direction or input from him, leaving me stranded doing essentially nothing on clock time and a better case for firing, I guess. Yet from his positive tone and the way he was talking about social things and such, I would hardly guess that if I crossed a line at some point that that would be the end of our relationship, and my relationship with the company, period. So my understanding is that business relationships are different from completely social relationships with no strings attached. If you're perceived to be not fulfilling the duties that your manager expects, then no matter how much rapport or friendly conversations you have with them there will come a point where the gloves will come off and they have to speak in a completely functional manner, because that's what the business wants in order to optimize, and ultimately that's the most important thing when it comes to business relationships: getting things done and saving face, as opposed to being social and speaking from the heart, without pulling punches. Here is my failing: this causes me to stray away from rapport, especially with higher ups, because my thought process cynically declares "it doesn't matter what emotions or expressions they use with you. If it comes down to it, they'd fire you in the end in spite of it all." I end up thinking because I am strictly in a business relationship with my coworkers, that trying to make social progress is futile, because I'm there to do work, and what I am mainly being judged for in going to work is how much effort I put in to solving the problems the org has and my abilities to actually accomplish the things they want, not how many witty stories I tell or small talk about hobbies I have. I am not saying it doesn't have its place, on break or even any time there is a meeting. It's just that I believe the only reason such social rapport is possible is because I'm still employed, and that is because I'm good at my job, not my social skills. I don't really mean people who are assholes can get away with it, because they impact productivity. I just never felt the need for something that was putting on airs and obscuring the real reason I'm at work.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Technical analysis means something else in investing than what Buffett does. And working to minimize psychological influences on his decisions is a big part of what Warren does.

sukilot 6y ago

It's a bit strange that, Buffett, who made billions on technical analysis of businesses, makes decisions based on who can manipulate him with Dale Carnegey (who changed his named to Carnegie to make people like him) tricks. Perhaps it's a meta thing, where Buffet only works with manipulators because he knows they need to manipulate others to succeed.

11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
Being a strong business manager and being liked are not mutually exclusive.
ftio 6y ago
Are you claiming that, in a business setting, all people who are nice to work and talk with are manipulators? Do you think Warren Buffet is incapable of discerning the difference between an authentically pleasant, kind person and a manipulator? Does he strike you as the kind of person to be easily duped? Whether we're talking about Buffet or in general, this is a pretty dim view of work and of the world. Most of us spend the majority of our time at work. For many (for most, I hope), building relationships at work isn't the bizarre lifehack game I so often see it characterized as here. Instead, those human connections are intrinsically fulfilling and they help give meaning to the work and to our lives, which can sometimes feel arbitrary and meaningless.
- nonbirithm 6y ago
  I'll probably get flak for this, but here is my experience. I was fired from my first internship in college. An internship. And the reason apparently had to do with these really subtle ways I interacted with the high level employees that nobody told me about. For example, it appeared to be that getting up and leaving at lunch break while a C-level is talking about his vacation to Cancun without saying "I'm leaving, it was nice to see you, thanks for the chat about Cancun" was a firable offense. So offensive, apparently, that immediately after my manager pulled me into a room and absolutely grilled me for it in the most direct, robotic language he could. The point was clear. Don't just get up and leave if a C-level is making small talk, even if it's on break. I should mention that this was a company that prided itself on its "startup mentality". At the time this scared the shit out of me. My college age self started to believe: is this just how the real world works? You think all is fine until it isn't, because nobody told you their specific rules for what is acceptable to do or what they really think of you? By the time they told me it was my last day I completely failed to be surprised. This was what they actually wanted to tell me to my face for so long. But the only place and time they were going to tell it to me was five minutes out of their busy schedule out of the sight of all the people programming and shooting the shit about Cancun and having a good laugh together. Building relationships with each other. Tangible, valuable relationships. "Real" relationships. Today, with some added experience I more or less understand: Yes, that org was dysfunctional if that's what it came down to, all those unwritten social rules I had no way of understanding if nobody was going to tell me I would be fired for breaking them. I contrast this with my current job where this kind of thing would not be tolerated in the slightest, and instead their policy is tolerance of absolutely everyone and their thoughts and feelings, so long as they aren't disruptive. But how was that manager talking to me before that lunch break? With great rapport. I had found him very likeable up to that point. He guided me through the steps to set up my devenv and introduced me to the members of the team who he gave nicknames and shot the breeze with them and me and laughed and talked to me about his opinions on marriage and having children and appeared to be having a nice time with me, until he apparently started believing I was dead weight because of whatever unspeakable thing I did and the subsequent lack of any programming-related direction or input from him, leaving me stranded doing essentially nothing on clock time and a better case for firing, I guess. Yet from his positive tone and the way he was talking about social things and such, I would hardly guess that if I crossed a line at some point that that would be the end of our relationship, and my relationship with the company, period. So my understanding is that business relationships are different from completely social relationships with no strings attached. If you're perceived to be not fulfilling the duties that your manager expects, then no matter how much rapport or friendly conversations you have with them there will come a point where the gloves will come off and they have to speak in a completely functional manner, because that's what the business wants in order to optimize, and ultimately that's the most important thing when it comes to business relationships: getting things done and saving face, as opposed to being social and speaking from the heart, without pulling punches. Here is my failing: this causes me to stray away from rapport, especially with higher ups, because my thought process cynically declares "it doesn't matter what emotions or expressions they use with you. If it comes down to it, they'd fire you in the end in spite of it all." I end up thinking because I am strictly in a business relationship with my coworkers, that trying to make social progress is futile, because I'm there to do work, and what I am mainly being judged for in going to work is how much effort I put in to solving the problems the org has and my abilities to actually accomplish the things they want, not how many witty stories I tell or small talk about hobbies I have. I am not saying it doesn't have its place, on break or even any time there is a meeting. It's just that I believe the only reason such social rapport is possible is because I'm still employed, and that is because I'm good at my job, not my social skills. I don't really mean people who are assholes can get away with it, because they impact productivity. I just never felt the need for something that was putting on airs and obscuring the real reason I'm at work.
valuearb 6y ago
Technical analysis means something else in investing than what Buffett does. And working to minimize psychological influences on his decisions is a big part of what Warren does.