6 ms·

Your statement is rather misleading. First of all, any people outside Germany need to know that "DHL" in Germany refers to the regular parcel post of the forme

Your statement is rather misleading. First of all, any people outside Germany need to know that "DHL" in Germany refers to the regular parcel post of the former German national post. What other countries outside Germany call "DHL" is actually called "DHL Express" in Germany and they are a separate subsidiary of Deutsche Post World Net. They have their own fleet of delivery cars and also local parcel depots. Secondly, it's important to note that in Germany, Deutsche Post DHL delivers 95% of all packages within Germany on the next day. This means, that your insinuation that non-Amazon packages are not delivered fast is untrue. And, thirdly, Amazon pays for their packages being prioritized. Amazon calls this delivery service "Amazon Prime", at DHL, these packages are internally called "PRIO" (it's also on the label) and Amazon actually pays for that. Other types of packages include "VIP" which is used for packages with valuable content. And since Amazon pays your the prioritization of their packages, every other customer can do that as well with DHL guaranteeing that your package gets delivered on the next day. However, since 95% of all DHL standard packages in Germany are delivered on the next day anyway, most customers aren't using this particular service. There is simply no gain since a standard parcel ("Paket" as compared to the even cheaper "Päckchen") already comes with tracking and insurance up to 500 Euros. Please keep in mind that in the US, regular packages take 2-3 days which is why choosing priority shipment in the US makes a huge difference as compared to when ordering from Amazon Germany.

AmericanChopper 6y ago
The idea of paying for a superior level of service is exactly what net neutrality is supposed to prohibit, so your response just kinda lends credibility to the parent comments analogy.
- fpgaminer 6y ago
  Service tiers make total sense for mail, even under a "neutral" system. Sometimes people need, for example, guaranteed next day delivery. So, if Amazon wants to pay extra for that service tier like everyone else ... what's the problem? The real issue is if Amazon gets that service at a discounted rate. They probably do, and I can see arguments for why we wouldn't want them to be able to. But I can't see arguments against service tiers. Besides, service tiers exist under net neutrality. I can choose to buy a 1Mbps connection, or a 1Gbps connection. The latter gives me a clear advantage. Yet that's allowed under net neutrality because _anyone_ can buy those tiers of service.
  - AmericanChopper 6y ago
    Every reason that mail service tiers make sense can be applied to net neutrality too. VOIP, streaming media, multiplayer video games all “need” a much better QoS than say browsing a web page, or downloading a torrent does. Anybody who wishes to compete with Amazon will also have to pay additional fees to offer an equivalent service, and if high QoS delivery channels become over-subscribed, prices for them will increase. Further discriminating against competition. > So, if Amazon wants to pay extra for that service tier like everyone else ... what's the problem? What’s the problem with an ISP creating a seperate QoS tier for people who require it, and charging more for it? It’s exactly the same thing.
    - twblalock 6y ago
      > Every reason that mail service tiers make sense can be applied to net neutrality too. VOIP, streaming media, multiplayer video games all “need” a much better QoS than say browsing a web page, or downloading a torrent does. That's a pretty good argument against net neutrality. It's a bad argument against service tiers for mail.
- johncolanduoni 6y ago
  If net neutrality is supposed to prevent paying for a superior level of service from the provider you directly contract with, somebody should crack down on all the internet providers that offer different bandwidth/priority for different prices. There’s not an analogue in this instance for the two sides of a network connection; DHL picks up the packages and drops them off. If you want to argue against price discrimination in general, you’re going to need a stronger argument than an analogy to net neutrality.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  Not really. It is more akin to paying more monthly for more GB of internet per month or paying more for faster internet. Net neutrality is supposed to prohibit a company from slowing down a competitor or slowing down things the company disagrees with - so, for example, Comcast shouldn't be slowing down Netflix. For the post office, this would be prioritizing packages from one carrier in the same class of mail over another. Now, there is no saying that the mail is neutral, though, nor that the contracts allow them to be (I really don't know: Maybe they need to prioritize just to keep from having fees that bankrupt them).
mns 6y ago
And to add to what you said, except bigger packages (things like TVs) for over 2 years most of the normal Amazon packages (could be only in the bigger cities) are going through some Amazon sub-contractors or whatever they call Amazon Logistics.
- Semaphor 6y ago
  Here in Lübeck they started using Amazon Logistics this year and it has been an amazing experience :)
ThePhysicist 6y ago
That's rather harsh. The DHL "PRIO" sevice was explicitly created for Amazon and later opened to other larger customers like Zalando, but it's nothing I can buy as a private person or even small online retailer. I think your 95 % next day delivery rate is actually the value that DHL promises to PRIO customers (https://www.dhl.de/content/dam/images/pdf/GK/dhl-paket-prio-fulfillment-infoblatt-201807.pdf https://www.dhl.de/content/dam/images/pdf/GK/dhl-paket-prio-... - they mention up to 97%), as regular parcels don't have a guaranteed delivery time. So to recap, DHL has created a specific service that it offered exclusively to Amazon (and now a few other retail giants) which prioritizes their packages. I can't buy that service as a regular Joe or small retailer, so my stuff gets deprioritized as compared to Amazon. In my personal experience I have witnessed that many times when sending or receiving packages, as my stuff from Amazon always arrives on time while my own packages take days or (in rare cases) even weeks to get delivered. What exactly is misleading about that?
- johncolanduoni 6y ago
  My German is pretty rusty but it appears you can buy PRIO stamps, online with PayPal no less: https://www.deutschepost.de/de/p/prio.html https://www.deutschepost.de/de/p/prio.html.
  - detaro 6y ago
    That's Deutsche Post letters, not DHL packages. DHL Prio is limited to a a few source distribution centers and larger customers.
the-dude 6y ago
DHL is many things : DHL Express, DHL Parcel, DHL ground? Maybe more.
- oneplane 6y ago
  One could argue that by making DHL into many DHLs, nobody is actually DHL.
  - the-dude 6y ago
    It is 'brand dilution' for DHL Express for sure. I know from first hand experience of the DHL Express Service center in my town, they are not happy to be associated with DHL Parcel. But hey, how can the consumer know? It is yellow and red and says 'DHL'.
    - formerly_proven 6y ago
      And Deutsche Post DHL isn't happy to be associated with DHL Express...
account42 6y ago
> Secondly, it's important to note that in Germany, Deutsche Post DHL delivers 95% of all packages within Germany on the next day. Maybe DHL claims to have attempted a delivery for 95% of packages within a day (even that does not match my experience, average is more like 2+ business days) but that doesn't mean that the package was delivered or that a delivery was attempted. I have had DHL claim to attempt delivery while I was home waiting for the package. No one rang the doorbell that day. No, this hasn't been a single occurence. Yes I have complained. No, this hasn't stopped happening. I have had DHL send back international packages because they supposedly had made one delivery attempt (with no notification left behind) and then given up. I have had DHL lose packages for months, only delivering after complaints and with no explanation of what had gone wrong. Every international package I received had detailed online tracking until the moment it reached Germany where all updates stop until the package is delivered (if it is delivered). DHL stopped making multiple delivery attempts for most packages and instead of stashing the packages at the Postfiliale around the corner they send all undelivered pacakges for the city to one or two places, causing literally hour long queues of people trying to get their stuff (not to mention the wasted time getting there in the first place). I have had DHL claim a package was dropped of at a Postfiliale only to have the people there not find any records of the package even days later. And worse, they didn't launch an internal investigation but just directed me to the public DHL service hotline which is good for only one thing and that is wasting your time. DHL / Deutsche Post is complete garbage and badly needs oversight that actually holds them accountable.

AmericanChopper 6y ago

The idea of paying for a superior level of service is exactly what net neutrality is supposed to prohibit, so your response just kinda lends credibility to the parent comments analogy.

fpgaminer 6y ago
Service tiers make total sense for mail, even under a "neutral" system. Sometimes people need, for example, guaranteed next day delivery. So, if Amazon wants to pay extra for that service tier like everyone else ... what's the problem? The real issue is if Amazon gets that service at a discounted rate. They probably do, and I can see arguments for why we wouldn't want them to be able to. But I can't see arguments against service tiers. Besides, service tiers exist under net neutrality. I can choose to buy a 1Mbps connection, or a 1Gbps connection. The latter gives me a clear advantage. Yet that's allowed under net neutrality because _anyone_ can buy those tiers of service.
- AmericanChopper 6y ago
  Every reason that mail service tiers make sense can be applied to net neutrality too. VOIP, streaming media, multiplayer video games all “need” a much better QoS than say browsing a web page, or downloading a torrent does. Anybody who wishes to compete with Amazon will also have to pay additional fees to offer an equivalent service, and if high QoS delivery channels become over-subscribed, prices for them will increase. Further discriminating against competition. > So, if Amazon wants to pay extra for that service tier like everyone else ... what's the problem? What’s the problem with an ISP creating a seperate QoS tier for people who require it, and charging more for it? It’s exactly the same thing.
  - twblalock 6y ago
    > Every reason that mail service tiers make sense can be applied to net neutrality too. VOIP, streaming media, multiplayer video games all “need” a much better QoS than say browsing a web page, or downloading a torrent does. That's a pretty good argument against net neutrality. It's a bad argument against service tiers for mail.
johncolanduoni 6y ago
If net neutrality is supposed to prevent paying for a superior level of service from the provider you directly contract with, somebody should crack down on all the internet providers that offer different bandwidth/priority for different prices. There’s not an analogue in this instance for the two sides of a network connection; DHL picks up the packages and drops them off. If you want to argue against price discrimination in general, you’re going to need a stronger argument than an analogy to net neutrality.
Broken_Hippo 6y ago
Not really. It is more akin to paying more monthly for more GB of internet per month or paying more for faster internet. Net neutrality is supposed to prohibit a company from slowing down a competitor or slowing down things the company disagrees with - so, for example, Comcast shouldn't be slowing down Netflix. For the post office, this would be prioritizing packages from one carrier in the same class of mail over another. Now, there is no saying that the mail is neutral, though, nor that the contracts allow them to be (I really don't know: Maybe they need to prioritize just to keep from having fees that bankrupt them).

mns 6y ago

And to add to what you said, except bigger packages (things like TVs) for over 2 years most of the normal Amazon packages (could be only in the bigger cities) are going through some Amazon sub-contractors or whatever they call Amazon Logistics.

Semaphor 6y ago
Here in Lübeck they started using Amazon Logistics this year and it has been an amazing experience :)

ThePhysicist 6y ago

That's rather harsh. The DHL "PRIO" sevice was explicitly created for Amazon and later opened to other larger customers like Zalando, but it's nothing I can buy as a private person or even small online retailer. I think your 95 % next day delivery rate is actually the value that DHL promises to PRIO customers (https://www.dhl.de/content/dam/images/pdf/GK/dhl-paket-prio-fulfillment-infoblatt-201807.pdf https://www.dhl.de/content/dam/images/pdf/GK/dhl-paket-prio-... - they mention up to 97%), as regular parcels don't have a guaranteed delivery time. So to recap, DHL has created a specific service that it offered exclusively to Amazon (and now a few other retail giants) which prioritizes their packages. I can't buy that service as a regular Joe or small retailer, so my stuff gets deprioritized as compared to Amazon. In my personal experience I have witnessed that many times when sending or receiving packages, as my stuff from Amazon always arrives on time while my own packages take days or (in rare cases) even weeks to get delivered. What exactly is misleading about that?

johncolanduoni 6y ago
My German is pretty rusty but it appears you can buy PRIO stamps, online with PayPal no less: https://www.deutschepost.de/de/p/prio.html https://www.deutschepost.de/de/p/prio.html.
- detaro 6y ago
  That's Deutsche Post letters, not DHL packages. DHL Prio is limited to a a few source distribution centers and larger customers.

the-dude 6y ago

DHL is many things : DHL Express, DHL Parcel, DHL ground? Maybe more.

oneplane 6y ago
One could argue that by making DHL into many DHLs, nobody is actually DHL.
- the-dude 6y ago
  It is 'brand dilution' for DHL Express for sure. I know from first hand experience of the DHL Express Service center in my town, they are not happy to be associated with DHL Parcel. But hey, how can the consumer know? It is yellow and red and says 'DHL'.
  - formerly_proven 6y ago
    And Deutsche Post DHL isn't happy to be associated with DHL Express...

account42 6y ago

> Secondly, it's important to note that in Germany, Deutsche Post DHL delivers 95% of all packages within Germany on the next day. Maybe DHL claims to have attempted a delivery for 95% of packages within a day (even that does not match my experience, average is more like 2+ business days) but that doesn't mean that the package was delivered or that a delivery was attempted. I have had DHL claim to attempt delivery while I was home waiting for the package. No one rang the doorbell that day. No, this hasn't been a single occurence. Yes I have complained. No, this hasn't stopped happening. I have had DHL send back international packages because they supposedly had made one delivery attempt (with no notification left behind) and then given up. I have had DHL lose packages for months, only delivering after complaints and with no explanation of what had gone wrong. Every international package I received had detailed online tracking until the moment it reached Germany where all updates stop until the package is delivered (if it is delivered). DHL stopped making multiple delivery attempts for most packages and instead of stashing the packages at the Postfiliale around the corner they send all undelivered pacakges for the city to one or two places, causing literally hour long queues of people trying to get their stuff (not to mention the wasted time getting there in the first place). I have had DHL claim a package was dropped of at a Postfiliale only to have the people there not find any records of the package even days later. And worse, they didn't launch an internal investigation but just directed me to the public DHL service hotline which is good for only one thing and that is wasting your time. DHL / Deutsche Post is complete garbage and badly needs oversight that actually holds them accountable.