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Well, maybe we need a "delivery neutrality law" as well. In Germany it's the same story, DHL treats Amazon packages with utmost care and always delivers them on

Well, maybe we need a "delivery neutrality law" as well. In Germany it's the same story, DHL treats Amazon packages with utmost care and always delivers them on time, while anything else gets deprioritized. Guess the delivery companies don't have much choice here as Amazon packages make up 20-30 % of their parcel business now (at least in Germany), especially since Amazon is building up their own logistics in larger cities to compete with them.

tpetry 6y ago
And Amazon experimented (or is still experimenting) with building a logistics company to no longer depend on DHL. In the past i got sometimes packages delivered by „Amazon Logistics“ employees.
- yomly 6y ago
  My understanding is that the infrastructure for Amazon Logistics was added to help scale for the weekend Prime deliveries and Christmas/Black Friday season. But I guess just like AWS was born out of Amazon building internal redundancy for scalability of their compute, Amazon Logistics is paving their way towards being more independent with shipping
- lol768 6y ago
  > And Amazon experimented (or is still experimenting) with building a logistics company to no longer depend on DHL. In the UK it's been a very long time since I got many parcels from Amazon that weren't delivered by Amazon Logistics. DPD, Royal Mail and other deliveries happen once in a blue moon but Amazon is mostly things on its own now in my experience.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    Do you mean actual Amazon Logistics branded vehicles? Where I am Amazon seem to use an independent contractor, and they're brilliant. It's always one of a couple of people I recognise, they have a nice van branded as their own company. It's a great service.
- moltar 6y ago
  I think this is the norm in Canada. I’m getting all of my packages from a third party logistics company. A small local operation. This is in a major central city. That’s probably because Canada Post is just so terrible and expensive here that it’s worth it.
- cbmuser 6y ago
  Amazon uses multiple delivery companies in Germany, including their own Amazon Logistics, Hermes, DHL standard, DHL Express, UPS, Pin AG and Deutsche Post Letter. It usually depends on the location of the recipient.
eru 6y ago
I don't see how a 'delivery neutrality law' would help the economy? Of course, businesses are going to go to extra lengths for their best customers. That's just expected and normal.
- rvense 6y ago
  Providing a level playing field for non-Amazon sellers is extremely important for the economy. Amazon is approaching monopoly or near-monopoly on many things, and getting preferential treatment from logistics companies will only accelerate that.
  - cbmuser 6y ago
    What the original OP said about German parcel services was wrong anyway. Even standard DHL packages in Germany are delivered the next day 95% of the cases. It's just that Amazon pays DHL extra money that they guarantee next day delivery. It's just that Amazon can tell their customers that the shipment will arrive on a certain date. However, as I said, since 95% of DHL standard packages arrive on the next day in Germany anyway, there is no point trying to scandalize Amazon's prioritized treatment (which they also pay for, btw). Source: A close family member of mine works at DHL Germany so I have some insight on their business.
luckylion 6y ago
The crazy part is that their special Amazon tariffs seem to not really cover costs, so individual package delivery goes up in price instead. Amazon might make up 20-30% of volume, but they also pay only 20-30% of the normal price for delivery. Which is crazy when you consider that most of the cost for delivery comes from the actual delivery to your door. That doesn't magically scale and get cheaper per unit because Amazon hands over a large amount of packages.
- jellicle 6y ago
  Mail delivery, like many internet services, has very nice economies of scale. Once you are paying the setup cost for someone to go to every door every day, the marginal cost of adding one more package is not high. So USPS can probably offer any particular mail-sender very low rates and justify them with the idea that the revenue exceeds their marginal cost to deliver (though if they offer everyone such low rates they won't be covering their true overall costs).
  - luckylion 6y ago
    Probably, but that's for regular mail only, not for parcels because you don't go to every door every day and deliver larger packages.
twblalock 6y ago
Like all other "neutrality" laws, this would be fundamentally anti-free-market, anti-consumer-preference, and pretty dumb. The USPS should give people what they want, otherwise the other delivery companies will put the USPS out of business. If that happens, there will not be any delivery company that is required to bring mail to everyone, no matter where they live. Let's give the USPS the ability to survive so people in rural areas can still get mail.
cbmuser 6y ago
Your statement is rather misleading. First of all, any people outside Germany need to know that "DHL" in Germany refers to the regular parcel post of the former German national post. What other countries outside Germany call "DHL" is actually called "DHL Express" in Germany and they are a separate subsidiary of Deutsche Post World Net. They have their own fleet of delivery cars and also local parcel depots. Secondly, it's important to note that in Germany, Deutsche Post DHL delivers 95% of all packages within Germany on the next day. This means, that your insinuation that non-Amazon packages are not delivered fast is untrue. And, thirdly, Amazon pays for their packages being prioritized. Amazon calls this delivery service "Amazon Prime", at DHL, these packages are internally called "PRIO" (it's also on the label) and Amazon actually pays for that. Other types of packages include "VIP" which is used for packages with valuable content. And since Amazon pays your the prioritization of their packages, every other customer can do that as well with DHL guaranteeing that your package gets delivered on the next day. However, since 95% of all DHL standard packages in Germany are delivered on the next day anyway, most customers aren't using this particular service. There is simply no gain since a standard parcel ("Paket" as compared to the even cheaper "Päckchen") already comes with tracking and insurance up to 500 Euros. Please keep in mind that in the US, regular packages take 2-3 days which is why choosing priority shipment in the US makes a huge difference as compared to when ordering from Amazon Germany.
- AmericanChopper 6y ago
  The idea of paying for a superior level of service is exactly what net neutrality is supposed to prohibit, so your response just kinda lends credibility to the parent comments analogy.
  - fpgaminer 6y ago
    Service tiers make total sense for mail, even under a "neutral" system. Sometimes people need, for example, guaranteed next day delivery. So, if Amazon wants to pay extra for that service tier like everyone else ... what's the problem? The real issue is if Amazon gets that service at a discounted rate. They probably do, and I can see arguments for why we wouldn't want them to be able to. But I can't see arguments against service tiers. Besides, service tiers exist under net neutrality. I can choose to buy a 1Mbps connection, or a 1Gbps connection. The latter gives me a clear advantage. Yet that's allowed under net neutrality because _anyone_ can buy those tiers of service.
innocenat 6y ago
Did you mean we need to remove registered, priority, overnight, EMS, SAL, etc? After all, all delivery must be equal.
contrarianmop 6y ago
That’s strange. I always had issues with DHL ranging from stolen items, open packages to delays and blunt rudeness from drivers.
Talanes 6y ago
Amazon being able to cut deals with the delivery companies themselves seems... fine? Like I'm not in the habit of advocating things be easier for giant corporations, but it's whatever. However, giving them a better deal than a regular citizen with a nationalized service is just bullshit.
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  Bulk discounted presorted shipping is a thing for everyone technically - junkmailers have been doing it before before Bezos was born. It is a matter of baked in fixed transaction costs. In addition to sparing the back end sorting costs they would rather get 1 order of 1000 to process than 1000 orders of 1. Most would rather not bother with the overhead of say a 17 cent checkout fee to pay for groceries and just have it baked in the prices.

tpetry 6y ago

And Amazon experimented (or is still experimenting) with building a logistics company to no longer depend on DHL. In the past i got sometimes packages delivered by „Amazon Logistics“ employees.

yomly 6y ago
My understanding is that the infrastructure for Amazon Logistics was added to help scale for the weekend Prime deliveries and Christmas/Black Friday season. But I guess just like AWS was born out of Amazon building internal redundancy for scalability of their compute, Amazon Logistics is paving their way towards being more independent with shipping
lol768 6y ago
> And Amazon experimented (or is still experimenting) with building a logistics company to no longer depend on DHL. In the UK it's been a very long time since I got many parcels from Amazon that weren't delivered by Amazon Logistics. DPD, Royal Mail and other deliveries happen once in a blue moon but Amazon is mostly things on its own now in my experience.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  Do you mean actual Amazon Logistics branded vehicles? Where I am Amazon seem to use an independent contractor, and they're brilliant. It's always one of a couple of people I recognise, they have a nice van branded as their own company. It's a great service.
moltar 6y ago
I think this is the norm in Canada. I’m getting all of my packages from a third party logistics company. A small local operation. This is in a major central city. That’s probably because Canada Post is just so terrible and expensive here that it’s worth it.
cbmuser 6y ago
Amazon uses multiple delivery companies in Germany, including their own Amazon Logistics, Hermes, DHL standard, DHL Express, UPS, Pin AG and Deutsche Post Letter. It usually depends on the location of the recipient.

eru 6y ago

I don't see how a 'delivery neutrality law' would help the economy? Of course, businesses are going to go to extra lengths for their best customers. That's just expected and normal.

rvense 6y ago
Providing a level playing field for non-Amazon sellers is extremely important for the economy. Amazon is approaching monopoly or near-monopoly on many things, and getting preferential treatment from logistics companies will only accelerate that.
- cbmuser 6y ago
  What the original OP said about German parcel services was wrong anyway. Even standard DHL packages in Germany are delivered the next day 95% of the cases. It's just that Amazon pays DHL extra money that they guarantee next day delivery. It's just that Amazon can tell their customers that the shipment will arrive on a certain date. However, as I said, since 95% of DHL standard packages arrive on the next day in Germany anyway, there is no point trying to scandalize Amazon's prioritized treatment (which they also pay for, btw). Source: A close family member of mine works at DHL Germany so I have some insight on their business.

luckylion 6y ago

The crazy part is that their special Amazon tariffs seem to not really cover costs, so individual package delivery goes up in price instead. Amazon might make up 20-30% of volume, but they also pay only 20-30% of the normal price for delivery. Which is crazy when you consider that most of the cost for delivery comes from the actual delivery to your door. That doesn't magically scale and get cheaper per unit because Amazon hands over a large amount of packages.

jellicle 6y ago
Mail delivery, like many internet services, has very nice economies of scale. Once you are paying the setup cost for someone to go to every door every day, the marginal cost of adding one more package is not high. So USPS can probably offer any particular mail-sender very low rates and justify them with the idea that the revenue exceeds their marginal cost to deliver (though if they offer everyone such low rates they won't be covering their true overall costs).
- luckylion 6y ago
  Probably, but that's for regular mail only, not for parcels because you don't go to every door every day and deliver larger packages.

twblalock 6y ago

Like all other "neutrality" laws, this would be fundamentally anti-free-market, anti-consumer-preference, and pretty dumb. The USPS should give people what they want, otherwise the other delivery companies will put the USPS out of business. If that happens, there will not be any delivery company that is required to bring mail to everyone, no matter where they live. Let's give the USPS the ability to survive so people in rural areas can still get mail.

cbmuser 6y ago

Your statement is rather misleading. First of all, any people outside Germany need to know that "DHL" in Germany refers to the regular parcel post of the former German national post. What other countries outside Germany call "DHL" is actually called "DHL Express" in Germany and they are a separate subsidiary of Deutsche Post World Net. They have their own fleet of delivery cars and also local parcel depots. Secondly, it's important to note that in Germany, Deutsche Post DHL delivers 95% of all packages within Germany on the next day. This means, that your insinuation that non-Amazon packages are not delivered fast is untrue. And, thirdly, Amazon pays for their packages being prioritized. Amazon calls this delivery service "Amazon Prime", at DHL, these packages are internally called "PRIO" (it's also on the label) and Amazon actually pays for that. Other types of packages include "VIP" which is used for packages with valuable content. And since Amazon pays your the prioritization of their packages, every other customer can do that as well with DHL guaranteeing that your package gets delivered on the next day. However, since 95% of all DHL standard packages in Germany are delivered on the next day anyway, most customers aren't using this particular service. There is simply no gain since a standard parcel ("Paket" as compared to the even cheaper "Päckchen") already comes with tracking and insurance up to 500 Euros. Please keep in mind that in the US, regular packages take 2-3 days which is why choosing priority shipment in the US makes a huge difference as compared to when ordering from Amazon Germany.

AmericanChopper 6y ago
The idea of paying for a superior level of service is exactly what net neutrality is supposed to prohibit, so your response just kinda lends credibility to the parent comments analogy.
- fpgaminer 6y ago
  Service tiers make total sense for mail, even under a "neutral" system. Sometimes people need, for example, guaranteed next day delivery. So, if Amazon wants to pay extra for that service tier like everyone else ... what's the problem? The real issue is if Amazon gets that service at a discounted rate. They probably do, and I can see arguments for why we wouldn't want them to be able to. But I can't see arguments against service tiers. Besides, service tiers exist under net neutrality. I can choose to buy a 1Mbps connection, or a 1Gbps connection. The latter gives me a clear advantage. Yet that's allowed under net neutrality because _anyone_ can buy those tiers of service.

innocenat 6y ago

Did you mean we need to remove registered, priority, overnight, EMS, SAL, etc? After all, all delivery must be equal.

contrarianmop 6y ago

That’s strange. I always had issues with DHL ranging from stolen items, open packages to delays and blunt rudeness from drivers.

Talanes 6y ago

Amazon being able to cut deals with the delivery companies themselves seems... fine? Like I'm not in the habit of advocating things be easier for giant corporations, but it's whatever. However, giving them a better deal than a regular citizen with a nationalized service is just bullshit.

Nasrudith 6y ago
Bulk discounted presorted shipping is a thing for everyone technically - junkmailers have been doing it before before Bezos was born. It is a matter of baked in fixed transaction costs. In addition to sparing the back end sorting costs they would rather get 1 order of 1000 to process than 1000 orders of 1. Most would rather not bother with the overhead of say a 17 cent checkout fee to pay for groceries and just have it baked in the prices.