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What's more interesting to me was that the first third or so of the email was just banter/chit-chat about sports and family updates. Good reminder that business

What's more interesting to me was that the first third or so of the email was just banter/chit-chat about sports and family updates. Good reminder that business is always about relationships, and while cold hard factual analysis (which is the latter part of the email) is important, the social and relationship building elements are key.

DrAwdeOccarim 6y ago
This is so true, even relationships within your organization. These are the networks and skills the current WFH era is going to lack. Similar to how kids are missing out not on learning facts while out of school, but really missing out on learning how to build social bonds and networks because ultimately that's what helps you succeed in life. Twenty years from now the sociological studies on this era are going to be fascinating.
everdrive 6y ago
While I completely agree with you, it's also a good indication that the executives running these businesses are in some sense immature. They should not care about ego and other personal things. They should care about effectiveness. If they rely on a personal rapport before acting, it seems to be that they are incapable of acting objectively.
- Blackstone4 6y ago
  So everyone at the top is a robot? The reality is that we are human and it is important to communicate effectively...part of this is building relationship with others. I've met billionaires and 100's of millions in financial services and they are all great with people. This isn't because they are great guys....some are narcissists...its because it works!
  - everdrive 6y ago
    This is clearly an unpopular opinion, but yes. If you need socialization to do business, then you're building a social network, or a social club. I don't think that generals in the army make small talk before giving orders. Yes, of course, there is going to be some personal chatter, but the ability to give orders does not depend on it. They can get down to brass tacks, and can work well with people they dislike personally. I understand that businesses are NOT the military. But, I'm perplexed that business leaders are seeking out peoople they have a good rapport with rather than people that are effective. These will not always be opposites, of course, but I would think that effectiveness would always matter more than rapport. Perhaps the problem is that in business there is no higher calling. It's all just about making money, and so there is generally not something worth setting aside your ego for.
    - NateEag 6y ago
      You're drawing a false dichotomy. You can both be effective and build rapport with people. It's both/and, not either/or. In fact, building a rapport is actually an important part of being effective. Esprit de corps is a real thing (and a military concept, to boot), and you do not get it by treating people like robots. However, you can't hack being kind and attentive. It only provides stat boosts if pursued as its own intrinsic good. Humans are really good at detecting false fronts - only world-class manipulators can consistently fool people into believing they're cared for. Given all that, an effective analyst like Buffett will understand that he should look for people who are effective and personable. They're out there, and they're better economic bets than the ones who hobble themselves by pretending emotions, kindness, and taking an interest in others for their own sake are irrelevant (I hobbled myself this way for years).
    - Blackstone4 6y ago
      I feel like your view is more of a reflection of you and your perspective (i.e. efficiency is #1 priority) rather than the world we live in. I feel like even in the military, relationships would be hugely important. If I was a soldier but hated my commanding officier...my performance would be very different to a situations where I had a great leader. Great relationships and trust results in higher efficiency.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    The are robots, just a different kind. They are social robots, running mechanical social scripts like Furby. They are absolutely not open and honest.
- nl 6y ago
  > executives running these businesses are in some sense immature Ironically the truth is the opposite - there's a good reason for saying "all business is personal". SAAS businesses are about optimising. Billion dollar deals are about relationships (and not always positive ones).
  - EricE 6y ago
    >Ironically the truth is the opposite - there's a good reason for saying "all business is personal". I'm amused that often the same people screeching that Trump is incompetent will also deride him for going "on and on" about relationships.
    - Hallucinaut 6y ago
      He's the President. Government is not the same as business, nor should it be.
      - nl 6y ago
        And corruption is different to good personal relationships.
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
  It's about being liked. A 40 year veteran technology sales exec repeats to me all the time, "People do business with people they like." Trust is a big part of liking someone, and trust is key to doing business, especially for Warren. There is no way he'd do business with someone he distrusted. That trust is earned, and this chit-chat is part of building trust. In persuasion, it's called 'pacing': showing that you have something in common, even unrelated to the business at hand, before trying to convince someone to take an action.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    It's a bit strange that, Buffett, who made billions on technical analysis of businesses, makes decisions based on who can manipulate him with Dale Carnegey (who changed his named to Carnegie to make people like him) tricks. Perhaps it's a meta thing, where Buffet only works with manipulators because he knows they need to manipulate others to succeed.
    - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
      Being a strong business manager and being liked are not mutually exclusive.
    - ftio 6y ago
      Are you claiming that, in a business setting, all people who are nice to work and talk with are manipulators? Do you think Warren Buffet is incapable of discerning the difference between an authentically pleasant, kind person and a manipulator? Does he strike you as the kind of person to be easily duped? Whether we're talking about Buffet or in general, this is a pretty dim view of work and of the world. Most of us spend the majority of our time at work. For many (for most, I hope), building relationships at work isn't the bizarre lifehack game I so often see it characterized as here. Instead, those human connections are intrinsically fulfilling and they help give meaning to the work and to our lives, which can sometimes feel arbitrary and meaningless.
      - nonbirithm 6y ago
- specialist 6y ago
  Maybe think of business relationships as recurring rounds of Prisoner's Dilemma. If you approach every transaction as mix-max, you'll get pwned by the long game.
- frogpelt 6y ago
  You have confused two concepts: efficiency and effectiveness. Not caring about ego or personal things would be more efficient. But it is not usually more effective when dealing with human relationships.
- BoiledCabbage 6y ago
  Your post speaks a lot about your perspective of the world. But humans fundamentally aren't rational. As well what I've found is that the ones that view themselves as striving towards being devoid of emotion and purely rational end up being some of the less rational ones because they are also the most unaware of their irrational/emotional blind spots. Usually the ones that accept their irrationality are more successful becsuse they try to understand and account for it - not mistakenly think they can eliminate it. We are all human - we have inherent flaws, biases, and irrational behavior. Success comes from acknowledging, understanding and managing them - not thinking we can eliminate them.
  - heavenlyblue 6y ago
    Oh my god, this is so true in my experience.

DrAwdeOccarim 6y ago

This is so true, even relationships within your organization. These are the networks and skills the current WFH era is going to lack. Similar to how kids are missing out not on learning facts while out of school, but really missing out on learning how to build social bonds and networks because ultimately that's what helps you succeed in life. Twenty years from now the sociological studies on this era are going to be fascinating.

everdrive 6y ago

While I completely agree with you, it's also a good indication that the executives running these businesses are in some sense immature. They should not care about ego and other personal things. They should care about effectiveness. If they rely on a personal rapport before acting, it seems to be that they are incapable of acting objectively.

Blackstone4 6y ago
So everyone at the top is a robot? The reality is that we are human and it is important to communicate effectively...part of this is building relationship with others. I've met billionaires and 100's of millions in financial services and they are all great with people. This isn't because they are great guys....some are narcissists...its because it works!
- everdrive 6y ago
  This is clearly an unpopular opinion, but yes. If you need socialization to do business, then you're building a social network, or a social club. I don't think that generals in the army make small talk before giving orders. Yes, of course, there is going to be some personal chatter, but the ability to give orders does not depend on it. They can get down to brass tacks, and can work well with people they dislike personally. I understand that businesses are NOT the military. But, I'm perplexed that business leaders are seeking out peoople they have a good rapport with rather than people that are effective. These will not always be opposites, of course, but I would think that effectiveness would always matter more than rapport. Perhaps the problem is that in business there is no higher calling. It's all just about making money, and so there is generally not something worth setting aside your ego for.
  - NateEag 6y ago
    You're drawing a false dichotomy. You can both be effective and build rapport with people. It's both/and, not either/or. In fact, building a rapport is actually an important part of being effective. Esprit de corps is a real thing (and a military concept, to boot), and you do not get it by treating people like robots. However, you can't hack being kind and attentive. It only provides stat boosts if pursued as its own intrinsic good. Humans are really good at detecting false fronts - only world-class manipulators can consistently fool people into believing they're cared for. Given all that, an effective analyst like Buffett will understand that he should look for people who are effective and personable. They're out there, and they're better economic bets than the ones who hobble themselves by pretending emotions, kindness, and taking an interest in others for their own sake are irrelevant (I hobbled myself this way for years).
  - Blackstone4 6y ago
    I feel like your view is more of a reflection of you and your perspective (i.e. efficiency is #1 priority) rather than the world we live in. I feel like even in the military, relationships would be hugely important. If I was a soldier but hated my commanding officier...my performance would be very different to a situations where I had a great leader. Great relationships and trust results in higher efficiency.
- sukilot 6y ago
  The are robots, just a different kind. They are social robots, running mechanical social scripts like Furby. They are absolutely not open and honest.
nl 6y ago
> executives running these businesses are in some sense immature Ironically the truth is the opposite - there's a good reason for saying "all business is personal". SAAS businesses are about optimising. Billion dollar deals are about relationships (and not always positive ones).
- EricE 6y ago
  >Ironically the truth is the opposite - there's a good reason for saying "all business is personal". I'm amused that often the same people screeching that Trump is incompetent will also deride him for going "on and on" about relationships.
  - Hallucinaut 6y ago
    He's the President. Government is not the same as business, nor should it be.
    - nl 6y ago
      And corruption is different to good personal relationships.
11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
It's about being liked. A 40 year veteran technology sales exec repeats to me all the time, "People do business with people they like." Trust is a big part of liking someone, and trust is key to doing business, especially for Warren. There is no way he'd do business with someone he distrusted. That trust is earned, and this chit-chat is part of building trust. In persuasion, it's called 'pacing': showing that you have something in common, even unrelated to the business at hand, before trying to convince someone to take an action.
- sukilot 6y ago
  It's a bit strange that, Buffett, who made billions on technical analysis of businesses, makes decisions based on who can manipulate him with Dale Carnegey (who changed his named to Carnegie to make people like him) tricks. Perhaps it's a meta thing, where Buffet only works with manipulators because he knows they need to manipulate others to succeed.
  - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
    Being a strong business manager and being liked are not mutually exclusive.
  - ftio 6y ago
    Are you claiming that, in a business setting, all people who are nice to work and talk with are manipulators? Do you think Warren Buffet is incapable of discerning the difference between an authentically pleasant, kind person and a manipulator? Does he strike you as the kind of person to be easily duped? Whether we're talking about Buffet or in general, this is a pretty dim view of work and of the world. Most of us spend the majority of our time at work. For many (for most, I hope), building relationships at work isn't the bizarre lifehack game I so often see it characterized as here. Instead, those human connections are intrinsically fulfilling and they help give meaning to the work and to our lives, which can sometimes feel arbitrary and meaningless.
    - nonbirithm 6y ago
specialist 6y ago
Maybe think of business relationships as recurring rounds of Prisoner's Dilemma. If you approach every transaction as mix-max, you'll get pwned by the long game.
frogpelt 6y ago
You have confused two concepts: efficiency and effectiveness. Not caring about ego or personal things would be more efficient. But it is not usually more effective when dealing with human relationships.
BoiledCabbage 6y ago
Your post speaks a lot about your perspective of the world. But humans fundamentally aren't rational. As well what I've found is that the ones that view themselves as striving towards being devoid of emotion and purely rational end up being some of the less rational ones because they are also the most unaware of their irrational/emotional blind spots. Usually the ones that accept their irrationality are more successful becsuse they try to understand and account for it - not mistakenly think they can eliminate it. We are all human - we have inherent flaws, biases, and irrational behavior. Success comes from acknowledging, understanding and managing them - not thinking we can eliminate them.
- heavenlyblue 6y ago
  Oh my god, this is so true in my experience.