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Ethereum-based options trading is going to enable these consumer experiences to be global, private, decentralized, and self-sovereign within a few years. It wor

by spir 6y ago

Ethereum-based options trading is going to enable these consumer experiences to be global, private, decentralized, and self-sovereign within a few years. It works already, but has many sharp edges. When that happens, retail investors in Utah or Uganda will be able to short TSLA on a web app; no regulators involved, thank you very much. The implications are exciting and concerning.

jayd16 6y ago
Just because you do it on a block chain doesn't mean you're "self-sovereign." That's just tax fraud.
- spir 6y ago
  Pardon me, I wasn't clear. I am not advocating for tax fraud or illegality :) Self-sovereignty is a technical characteristic of blockchains where nobody can prove you own a asset or did a transaction. That makes it hard to prove tax compliance or non-compliance. To those who think Ethereum on-chain activity is merely pseudonymous and not private, you're correct, but only temporarily, because zero knowledge platforms are arriving and will enable many common financial activities to be performed in a truly private context.
  - jayd16 6y ago
    If it happened and you don't report it, that's fraud. It doesn't matter how easy it is to not report it. This would apply to any other regulation as well, not just taxes.
- lostmsu 6y ago
  I don't think you understood what parent said: US government does not prevent people from trading directly, however in practice some can't do it, because all trading platforms are obliged to restrict "unaccredited" people. It is unclear how this will apply to decentalized currencies. Right now I'd say it does not apply at all, if everything happens on chain. This has nothing to do with people paying or evading taxes after a trade.
  - jayd16 6y ago
    The comment about no-regulation seems to imply private means secrecy and not simply a peer to peer transaction. Putting something on a chain does not mean current regulations do not apply. If by "no regulation" they mean peer to peer trades have less regulation, I'm not quite sure about that but if it becomes the most common way to trade I'd be surprised it would stay that way.
    - lostmsu 6y ago
      It is the later. Regulations will stay that way, or will likely be much less strict than for larger financial institutions. Privacy is not part of the question at the moment.
ac29 6y ago
> When that happens, retail investors in Utah or Uganda will be able to short TSLA on a web app; no regulators involved Can Americans legally trade securities and other financial instruments on an unregulated exchange? I think no - my neighbor Bob can't just open up a stock brokerage, and I dont see how this is any different. Engaging in illegal financial transactions also makes it harder to seek recourse when you're defrauded.

by spir 6y ago

jayd16 6y ago

Just because you do it on a block chain doesn't mean you're "self-sovereign." That's just tax fraud.

spir 6y ago
Pardon me, I wasn't clear. I am not advocating for tax fraud or illegality :) Self-sovereignty is a technical characteristic of blockchains where nobody can prove you own a asset or did a transaction. That makes it hard to prove tax compliance or non-compliance. To those who think Ethereum on-chain activity is merely pseudonymous and not private, you're correct, but only temporarily, because zero knowledge platforms are arriving and will enable many common financial activities to be performed in a truly private context.
- jayd16 6y ago
  If it happened and you don't report it, that's fraud. It doesn't matter how easy it is to not report it. This would apply to any other regulation as well, not just taxes.
lostmsu 6y ago
I don't think you understood what parent said: US government does not prevent people from trading directly, however in practice some can't do it, because all trading platforms are obliged to restrict "unaccredited" people. It is unclear how this will apply to decentalized currencies. Right now I'd say it does not apply at all, if everything happens on chain. This has nothing to do with people paying or evading taxes after a trade.
- jayd16 6y ago
  The comment about no-regulation seems to imply private means secrecy and not simply a peer to peer transaction. Putting something on a chain does not mean current regulations do not apply. If by "no regulation" they mean peer to peer trades have less regulation, I'm not quite sure about that but if it becomes the most common way to trade I'd be surprised it would stay that way.
  - lostmsu 6y ago
    It is the later. Regulations will stay that way, or will likely be much less strict than for larger financial institutions. Privacy is not part of the question at the moment.

ac29 6y ago

> When that happens, retail investors in Utah or Uganda will be able to short TSLA on a web app; no regulators involved Can Americans legally trade securities and other financial instruments on an unregulated exchange? I think no - my neighbor Bob can't just open up a stock brokerage, and I dont see how this is any different. Engaging in illegal financial transactions also makes it harder to seek recourse when you're defrauded.