5 ms·

This article–and the many like it-assume that there is some universal truth that experiences will make you happier than mere things, when this is not true. I d

by hyko 6y ago

This article–and the many like it-assume that there is some universal truth that experiences will make you happier than mere things, when this is not true. I derive a great deal of happiness from nice things. I suspect I’m not alone, and that people like me are the reason that the whole human environment isn’t just a pile of half-arsed crap designed to facilitate only certain types of approved experiences. We notice the qualities of the things around us every single moment of the day, and they can bring us great joy (or the opposite). Materialism is clearly not in vogue (and I suspect there is a moral dimension to this), but for some people it will make them far happier than trying to chase experiences. I suspect there are many natural materialists out there struggling to conform to the new societal norm that only the ephemeral can lead to psychological salvation, and that all desire for material riches is a sin.

so33 6y ago
I don’t think that’s the thesis of the article. Rather, I think the article is saying that nice things alone don’t compensate for the opportunity costs and negative second-order effects you incur when obtaining _some_ nice things. To use the article’s example of living in a city versus a suburb: If you can get a house in a suburb and can commute 15 minutes or so and are within walking distance of the stuff you care about (including your friends/family) and don’t value any of the perks of living in a city environment (or heavily dislike the downsides), then go for it. But a big house in the suburbs _alone_ isn’t automatically going to make your life better, yet in my experience that’s a very dominant mode of thinking.
bschne 6y ago
I had the same thought when I first read this as I don't care much for some experiences that seem to be very highly regarded as if they were guaranteed to make your life richer (at least in my generation) and at the same time I appreciate some material things and the physical configuration of my surroundings to a degree that some would maybe consider overly materialistic. For some people, nice things can actually affect their life experience, while some "experiences" (as in activities) feel rather meaningless. I think the point is that you should aim to pursue whatever positively affects how you experience your life and not what looks good on the surface only, regardless of whether the entity under consideration is a material thing or an immaterial activity. What a lot of well-designed "nice things" achieve is not just surface level beauty, but actually working well and "feeling right".
- graham_paul 6y ago
  > For some people, nice things can actually affect their life experience, while some "experiences" (as in activities) feel rather meaningless. I think the point is that you should aim to pursue whatever positively affects how you experience your life and not what looks good on the surface only, regardless of whether the entity under consideration is a material thing or an immaterial activity. I agree. Being a coin collector and engaging with the coin collection community can be as or more meaningful as a holiday
tarsinge 6y ago
Maybe that‘a what you get in some internet communities, but in reality just look at the ratio of old vs new cars or any stuff. Buying the new and shiny is still the norm. Also don’t confuse buying less things with buying crap, like a well hand crafted object can bring joy, because it has a meaning and an experience behind.
Ma8ee 6y ago
Well, of course nice things can bring you joy. But after the initial delight only through the experiences the things bring. Like the very nice in the suburbs with the huge garden won’t bring you much joy if you always come home after dark and never have time to play with the kids outside our having friends over because your commute and the need to work long hours to afford it. On the other hand, it brings me great joy just strolling around the garden watching everything growing or picking raspberries with my 3 year old son. So of course, in a sense, the house and the garden brings me joy. Or take another example. I have a nice $300 fountain pen. It brings me a little bit of joy every time I pick it up to write with it, just because the nib has the right amount of flex and it balances so well in my hand, the surface is soft but not slippery, etc. And I make sure that I have reason to use it for note taking and journaling, because it wouldn’t make me happy with dried ink in a drawer, or just looking nice in a stand on the top of my desk. So, it’s not that things are unimportant. Not at all. But I think we need to think about how they bring us happiness, because it is not the ownership in itself. (Then I’m certain that there is a class of people who thrives from a warm cozy feeling of just staring at a bank statement with a large positive amount.)
- graham_paul 6y ago
  > it brings me great joy just strolling around the garden watching everything growing or picking raspberries with my 3 year old son. So of course, in a sense, the house and the garden brings me joy. imo you get joy from being happy with what you have (whatever it is, in your case it is a house and a garden, for others it is a mansion and for others a tiny flat)
  - Ma8ee 6y ago
    That might also be the case, but that was not the point of the comment. The point is that owning a mansion, if that is what you crave, won’t make you happy if you never have time to experience it.
rocqua 6y ago
I think the article is less about 'experiences' like going on holiday or trying out stuff. Instead it is about actual common lived experiences. Like going to work, going to the store, going to do some sport. The things you do often. These things affect you and your life very much. But, according to the article, we don't put enough priority on these things.
Dumblydorr 6y ago
Hedonistic adaptation: anything new and pleasurable will become stale and normal. This leads to lifestyle creep, as one wants increasingly more expensive and luxuriant varieties of commodity and experience. This can be counteracted through philosophy like stoicism or contemplative practices like meditation. If we analyze our wants and needs, if we learn to love basic goods, we can achieve happiness with what we already have right now.
- graham_paul 6y ago
  > If we analyze our wants and needs, if we learn to love basic goods, we can achieve happiness with what we already have right now. This. All this 'experiences over things' is a false dichotomy and ends up falling into the trap it was supposed to warn about. Chasing experiences can have the same banality that chasing goods is associated with. But it doesn't have to be that way. Being happy with your current state is key. No amount of experiences or things by themselves will lead you to happiness imo. Say enough to a new device, a new car, a new exotic holiday destination, a new once-in-a-lifetime experience that costs more than you monthly salary. Say yes, to the things you have now and learn to enjoy without wanting more. Easier said than done ofc
joelbluminator 6y ago
The point of psychology research is to actually try to measure this, e.g exactly how much does this actually make you happier, and take a large sample of people. Your personal anecdote doesn't refute anything...
dougmwne 6y ago
Another possibility is that materialism is no longer in vogue because of changing economic prospects in the USA. Wages are stagnant and the future material possessions of today's young people may not exceed their parents. I think in many ways materialism is still the default for most Americans and "experiences" are mostly a distant competitor borne half out of truth and half out of necessity. And for what it's worth, even though I'm all in on experiences for now, I absolutely think that well curated possessions can bring lasting enjoyment. I'm not currently in a position to possess much, but could certainly see myself pivoting to possessions if I had a future opportunity.
jsmith12673 6y ago
You seem to imply that people are being persecuted en-mass for seeking material wealth. While there might be a vocal minority here (and elsewhere) that scoff at material wealth, its pretty clear that society at large still measures status by your possessions. People still seek out more luxurious cars, more gadgets, new fashions year after year without fail; evidenced by the unstoppable growth in those industries. Even if people might say that material riches are a 'sin', they certainly are not behaving as such.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
I have a cynical hypothesis that the whole "experiences over things" meme that's been so hot in the last two decades is driven by the same forces that turn products into services - companies covet repeat revenue. You can sell a product only once to a customer, until they use it up (which is why products are getting so fragile). But experiences are fleeting, so if you sell or gatekeep some good ones, you can expect a steady stream of repeat customers.

by hyko 6y ago

so33 6y ago

I don’t think that’s the thesis of the article. Rather, I think the article is saying that nice things alone don’t compensate for the opportunity costs and negative second-order effects you incur when obtaining _some_ nice things. To use the article’s example of living in a city versus a suburb: If you can get a house in a suburb and can commute 15 minutes or so and are within walking distance of the stuff you care about (including your friends/family) and don’t value any of the perks of living in a city environment (or heavily dislike the downsides), then go for it. But a big house in the suburbs _alone_ isn’t automatically going to make your life better, yet in my experience that’s a very dominant mode of thinking.

bschne 6y ago

I had the same thought when I first read this as I don't care much for some experiences that seem to be very highly regarded as if they were guaranteed to make your life richer (at least in my generation) and at the same time I appreciate some material things and the physical configuration of my surroundings to a degree that some would maybe consider overly materialistic. For some people, nice things can actually affect their life experience, while some "experiences" (as in activities) feel rather meaningless. I think the point is that you should aim to pursue whatever positively affects how you experience your life and not what looks good on the surface only, regardless of whether the entity under consideration is a material thing or an immaterial activity. What a lot of well-designed "nice things" achieve is not just surface level beauty, but actually working well and "feeling right".

graham_paul 6y ago
> For some people, nice things can actually affect their life experience, while some "experiences" (as in activities) feel rather meaningless. I think the point is that you should aim to pursue whatever positively affects how you experience your life and not what looks good on the surface only, regardless of whether the entity under consideration is a material thing or an immaterial activity. I agree. Being a coin collector and engaging with the coin collection community can be as or more meaningful as a holiday

tarsinge 6y ago

Maybe that‘a what you get in some internet communities, but in reality just look at the ratio of old vs new cars or any stuff. Buying the new and shiny is still the norm. Also don’t confuse buying less things with buying crap, like a well hand crafted object can bring joy, because it has a meaning and an experience behind.

Ma8ee 6y ago

Well, of course nice things can bring you joy. But after the initial delight only through the experiences the things bring. Like the very nice in the suburbs with the huge garden won’t bring you much joy if you always come home after dark and never have time to play with the kids outside our having friends over because your commute and the need to work long hours to afford it. On the other hand, it brings me great joy just strolling around the garden watching everything growing or picking raspberries with my 3 year old son. So of course, in a sense, the house and the garden brings me joy. Or take another example. I have a nice $300 fountain pen. It brings me a little bit of joy every time I pick it up to write with it, just because the nib has the right amount of flex and it balances so well in my hand, the surface is soft but not slippery, etc. And I make sure that I have reason to use it for note taking and journaling, because it wouldn’t make me happy with dried ink in a drawer, or just looking nice in a stand on the top of my desk. So, it’s not that things are unimportant. Not at all. But I think we need to think about how they bring us happiness, because it is not the ownership in itself. (Then I’m certain that there is a class of people who thrives from a warm cozy feeling of just staring at a bank statement with a large positive amount.)

graham_paul 6y ago
> it brings me great joy just strolling around the garden watching everything growing or picking raspberries with my 3 year old son. So of course, in a sense, the house and the garden brings me joy. imo you get joy from being happy with what you have (whatever it is, in your case it is a house and a garden, for others it is a mansion and for others a tiny flat)
- Ma8ee 6y ago
  That might also be the case, but that was not the point of the comment. The point is that owning a mansion, if that is what you crave, won’t make you happy if you never have time to experience it.

rocqua 6y ago

I think the article is less about 'experiences' like going on holiday or trying out stuff. Instead it is about actual common lived experiences. Like going to work, going to the store, going to do some sport. The things you do often. These things affect you and your life very much. But, according to the article, we don't put enough priority on these things.

Dumblydorr 6y ago

Hedonistic adaptation: anything new and pleasurable will become stale and normal. This leads to lifestyle creep, as one wants increasingly more expensive and luxuriant varieties of commodity and experience. This can be counteracted through philosophy like stoicism or contemplative practices like meditation. If we analyze our wants and needs, if we learn to love basic goods, we can achieve happiness with what we already have right now.

graham_paul 6y ago
> If we analyze our wants and needs, if we learn to love basic goods, we can achieve happiness with what we already have right now. This. All this 'experiences over things' is a false dichotomy and ends up falling into the trap it was supposed to warn about. Chasing experiences can have the same banality that chasing goods is associated with. But it doesn't have to be that way. Being happy with your current state is key. No amount of experiences or things by themselves will lead you to happiness imo. Say enough to a new device, a new car, a new exotic holiday destination, a new once-in-a-lifetime experience that costs more than you monthly salary. Say yes, to the things you have now and learn to enjoy without wanting more. Easier said than done ofc

joelbluminator 6y ago

The point of psychology research is to actually try to measure this, e.g exactly how much does this actually make you happier, and take a large sample of people. Your personal anecdote doesn't refute anything...

dougmwne 6y ago

Another possibility is that materialism is no longer in vogue because of changing economic prospects in the USA. Wages are stagnant and the future material possessions of today's young people may not exceed their parents. I think in many ways materialism is still the default for most Americans and "experiences" are mostly a distant competitor borne half out of truth and half out of necessity. And for what it's worth, even though I'm all in on experiences for now, I absolutely think that well curated possessions can bring lasting enjoyment. I'm not currently in a position to possess much, but could certainly see myself pivoting to possessions if I had a future opportunity.

jsmith12673 6y ago

You seem to imply that people are being persecuted en-mass for seeking material wealth. While there might be a vocal minority here (and elsewhere) that scoff at material wealth, its pretty clear that society at large still measures status by your possessions. People still seek out more luxurious cars, more gadgets, new fashions year after year without fail; evidenced by the unstoppable growth in those industries. Even if people might say that material riches are a 'sin', they certainly are not behaving as such.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

I have a cynical hypothesis that the whole "experiences over things" meme that's been so hot in the last two decades is driven by the same forces that turn products into services - companies covet repeat revenue. You can sell a product only once to a customer, until they use it up (which is why products are getting so fragile). But experiences are fleeting, so if you sell or gatekeep some good ones, you can expect a steady stream of repeat customers.