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The real issue is that the amount of stuff we can talk about is getting more and more limited. This also increases the chances of talking unknowingly/mistakenly

The real issue is that the amount of stuff we can talk about is getting more and more limited. This also increases the chances of talking unknowingly/mistakenly about a touchy subject.

pandaman 6y ago
Indeed. I grew up in the USSR so I am pretty good with the whole "don't talk about this over the phone/in earshot of somebody you don't trust/outside your kitchen" game. However, the rules in the later USSR were clear as the forbidden topics have not changed every week. In the modern USA anything can become political in an instant and there is no way this is sustainable. If J.K. Rowling can get cancelled then nobody is safe. It's more resembling the early USSR, where people purging public enemies last week became the public enemies themselves this week and their accusers were purged the next week.
- halostatue 6y ago
  J.K. Rowling hasn’t been cancelled. She’s been told that her words are hurtful to a vulnerable group of people and that she’s repeating some well-refuted lies. She keeps doubling down on those lies and her hurtful comments. But she’s still worth a stupid amount of money and she still has her publishing contracts. She’s received some pretty disgusting hateful comments _back_ (which is inexcusable), but most objections are specifically because she’s repeating toxic hate speech. Compare this with the 22 transgender people murdered in America so far this year: 22 transgender people have been killed so far this year — almost the total toll for 2019 (https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/508957-22-transgender-people-have-been-killed-so-far https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclu...). Being told that one’s words are hurtful is not the equivalent of being purged in the early USSR (such purges were quite often literal with use of bullets).
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    She has an opinion others don't like and she has all the money she will ever need. Same with TechLead (youtuber). So both of them are speaking out, and they can do so because they literally have more "Fuck You" money sitting in a bank than most of us can make over our lifetimes. Her words are resonating with a lot of women, and more than that, there are many more women who are afraid to agree with her publicly. Brenden O'Neil does a great talk about Orthodoxy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtWrljX9HRA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtWrljX9HRA I'm not going to say what I think about her statements, but I do think she has a right to say them. Dismissing them outright is dismissing the many people who are genuinely worried about legislation changes that affect what we can and cannot say.
    - halostatue 6y ago
      I have said nothing about her right to say her statements, as wrong-headed and ignorant as I think they are. Her critics also have every right to express their disgust with her support for transphobic “thought-leaders”. The complaints about “cancel culture” are _mostly_ that people who have never had their opinions challenged are now being challenged and called out for hurtful statements.
  - strken 6y ago
    I don't think many people are worried they'll be told off or get into an argument, they're worried about getting fired in the middle of a joint recession/pandemic. J. K. Rowling has been getting herself into trouble supporting various people who got fired, for example. It's also worth noting that trans people are a fraction of a percentage of the population. Most people won't know anyone personally. It's easier to hate a distant figure who you've never met, particularly when they only end up in the news for being near the Kardashians, leaking government secrets, or getting upset at a beloved children's author. Not a lot of people know who e.g. Lynn Conway is, and that's a shame.
  - pandaman 6y ago
    I am sorry my message was not clear enough. I did not say that J.K.Rowling is broke or that being cancelled is as same as being sent to Siberia/executed in 1930s USSR. All I said is that similarly to the 1930s USSR rules of what is "hate"/"counter-revolution" are changing so quickly and abruptly that even people who had been dedicated to the cause are routinely found guilty. E.g. just a couple months ago Rowling was an inspiration for women, an advocate for LGBT, feminism and other causes. Now she is being told that her words are hurtful. It's as same as some NKVD officer, who busted the counter-revolutionaries for criticizing the great ally of the USSR, Germany, get busted himself for being a German spy. And no, I don't mean that Rowling was busting somebody for criticizing Germany or is a German spy.

The real issue is that the amount of stuff we can talk about is getting more and more limited. This also increases the chances of talking unknowingly/mistakenly about a touchy subject.

pandaman 6y ago

Indeed. I grew up in the USSR so I am pretty good with the whole "don't talk about this over the phone/in earshot of somebody you don't trust/outside your kitchen" game. However, the rules in the later USSR were clear as the forbidden topics have not changed every week. In the modern USA anything can become political in an instant and there is no way this is sustainable. If J.K. Rowling can get cancelled then nobody is safe. It's more resembling the early USSR, where people purging public enemies last week became the public enemies themselves this week and their accusers were purged the next week.

halostatue 6y ago
J.K. Rowling hasn’t been cancelled. She’s been told that her words are hurtful to a vulnerable group of people and that she’s repeating some well-refuted lies. She keeps doubling down on those lies and her hurtful comments. But she’s still worth a stupid amount of money and she still has her publishing contracts. She’s received some pretty disgusting hateful comments _back_ (which is inexcusable), but most objections are specifically because she’s repeating toxic hate speech. Compare this with the 22 transgender people murdered in America so far this year: 22 transgender people have been killed so far this year — almost the total toll for 2019 (https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/508957-22-transgender-people-have-been-killed-so-far https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclu...). Being told that one’s words are hurtful is not the equivalent of being purged in the early USSR (such purges were quite often literal with use of bullets).
- djsumdog 6y ago
  She has an opinion others don't like and she has all the money she will ever need. Same with TechLead (youtuber). So both of them are speaking out, and they can do so because they literally have more "Fuck You" money sitting in a bank than most of us can make over our lifetimes. Her words are resonating with a lot of women, and more than that, there are many more women who are afraid to agree with her publicly. Brenden O'Neil does a great talk about Orthodoxy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtWrljX9HRA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtWrljX9HRA I'm not going to say what I think about her statements, but I do think she has a right to say them. Dismissing them outright is dismissing the many people who are genuinely worried about legislation changes that affect what we can and cannot say.
  - halostatue 6y ago
    I have said nothing about her right to say her statements, as wrong-headed and ignorant as I think they are. Her critics also have every right to express their disgust with her support for transphobic “thought-leaders”. The complaints about “cancel culture” are _mostly_ that people who have never had their opinions challenged are now being challenged and called out for hurtful statements.
- strken 6y ago
  I don't think many people are worried they'll be told off or get into an argument, they're worried about getting fired in the middle of a joint recession/pandemic. J. K. Rowling has been getting herself into trouble supporting various people who got fired, for example. It's also worth noting that trans people are a fraction of a percentage of the population. Most people won't know anyone personally. It's easier to hate a distant figure who you've never met, particularly when they only end up in the news for being near the Kardashians, leaking government secrets, or getting upset at a beloved children's author. Not a lot of people know who e.g. Lynn Conway is, and that's a shame.
- pandaman 6y ago
  I am sorry my message was not clear enough. I did not say that J.K.Rowling is broke or that being cancelled is as same as being sent to Siberia/executed in 1930s USSR. All I said is that similarly to the 1930s USSR rules of what is "hate"/"counter-revolution" are changing so quickly and abruptly that even people who had been dedicated to the cause are routinely found guilty. E.g. just a couple months ago Rowling was an inspiration for women, an advocate for LGBT, feminism and other causes. Now she is being told that her words are hurtful. It's as same as some NKVD officer, who busted the counter-revolutionaries for criticizing the great ally of the USSR, Germany, get busted himself for being a German spy. And no, I don't mean that Rowling was busting somebody for criticizing Germany or is a German spy.